JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Fred Litwin on April 01, 2026, 12:39:40 PM
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On the Trail of Delusion, Episode 32, The Single-Bullet Theory Panel Discussion
This was a ton of fun with our panel of Fred James, Scott Maudsley, Dr. Martin Kelly, and Dr. Nick Nalli.
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Great episode, Fred. There was way too much common sense being thrown around for the conspiracy crowd to handle.
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They mention the lapel flip at 34:50. There are some good comments re what/how a slug might cause the lapel flip (but no mention of jacket bulge). Anyhow they do not mention that Lattimer wrote that the lapel flip needed a big bulge & that a bulge needed lots of outshoot debris & that that needed a yawing/tumbling slug at exit, & that that needed the slug to pass throo a jfk firstly.
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They mention the lapel flip at 34:50. There are some good comments re what/how a slug might cause the lapel flip (but no mention of jacket bulge). Anyhow they do not mention that Lattimer wrote that the lapel flip needed a big bulge & that a bulge needed lots of outshoot debris & that that needed a yawing/tumbling slug at exit, & that that needed the slug to pass throo a jfk firstly.
The oblong entry wound on JBC's back and the flattening of the bullet at the base, not the nose of the bullet is proof positive the bullet was yawing after it exited from JFK's throat.
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Well, I will say what I always say, and that is my layman's view of the Z-film shows Gov. Connally shot ~Z-295, and JFK at Z-313. About one second apart.
The SBT requires that JBC, after being shot through the chest, having his right wrist fractured, and a slug burrow into his left leg...only then did JBC a 180-degree turn in his seat to look for JFK.
But, in real life, JBC described turning around to look for JFK after hearing the first shot. And then getting struck by a shot he did not hear as he began to face forward again. That is accurate, IMHO, fro my review of the Z-film.
Then there is this:
Connally: I was knocked over, just doubled over by the force of the bullet. It went in my back and came out my chest about 2 inches below and the left of my right nipple. The force of the bullet drove my body over almost double and when I looked, immediately I could see I was just drenched with blood. (1 HSCA 42)
That happens about ~Z-295. JBC describes himself as immediately incapacitated by the shot that struck him. No 180-degree turn.
From this, I deduce there was a second gunsel behind the JFK limo. The GK smoke-and-bang show may have been another gunsel, or a diversion. Or kids playing with firecrackers.
LHO remains the most likely suspect for the TSBD6 sniper. Indeed, LHO is the only JFKA suspect known beyond reasonable doubt to have been in Dealey Plaza 11.22. This makes unraveling the JFKA almost impossible.
I do not know who were LHO's confederates or handlers on 11.22. Might have been Alpha 66'ers, or G2, or G2 plants in Alpha 66, double agents.
Likely the plot in its entirety was three people, LHO the other gunsel and the GK player.
Such a small plot was hard to detect, even after the event. LHO was soon dead. Maybe even a patsy of sorts.
---30---
Of course, we all know Mossad perped the JFKA. Just ask Jeff Morley. Mossad was tight with James Jesus Angleton...so you know...that's a fact pattern.
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The Zapruder film shows that Governor Connally shot around Z-295 and JFK was shot at Z-313.
You're mistaken, because you lend far too much credence to the traumatized memory of the highly-confident-by-definition politician known as Governor John B. Connally, and because you fail to acknowledge the fact that Connally started turning far to his right around Z-164 to see where the first, missing-everything, shot had come from (he knew from the sound that it was behind him) and to see, by glancing over his right shoulder, if JFK was okay.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z164.jpg
But couldn't "see" JFK over his right shoulder because by Z-175 JFK had turned his head far to his right and raised his forearm and hand to wave to someone.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z175.jpg
Connally (and JFK, of course) were then hit from behind at approximately Z-222 as Connally was just starting to turn back to his left with the intention of looking over his left shoulder to see where the shot had come from and whether or not JFK was okay, but he only got about 20 degrees there in his intended 200-degree rotation.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z222.jpg
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TG-
We have belabored this point a few times.
I match Gov. JBC's testimony to the Z-film.
But even without JBC's testimony (and that of his wife), to my layman's eye, JBC is shot at ~z-295 and is indeed a bit pushed forward by the blow---which took out four inches of rub, and thus was meeting resistance as it passed through his body. (It is true, sometimes bullets will pass through a body, while the body remains relatively still, if only soft flesh or organs are struck).
JBC appears entirely uninjured right up ~Z-295.
I could on---JBC's surgeon said his opinion was that a separate bullet had struck JBC from the one that passed through JFK. Dr. Shaw had worked on 700 wartime gunshot victims.
Caveat emptor, and draw you own conclusions.
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TG-
We have belabored this point a few times.
I match Gov. JBC's testimony to the Z-film.
But even without JBC's testimony (and that of his wife), to my layman's eye, JBC is shot at ~z-295 and is indeed a bit pushed forward by the blow---which took out four inches of rub, and thus was meeting resistance as it passed through his body. (It is true, sometimes bullets will pass through a body, while the body remains relatively still, if only soft flesh or organs are struck).
JBC appears entirely uninjured right up ~Z-295.
I could on---JBC's surgeon said his opinion was that a separate bullet had struck JBC from the one that passed through JFK. Dr. Shaw had worked on 700 wartime gunshot victims.
Caveat emptor, and draw you own conclusions.
LOL!
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TG-
We have belabored this point a few times.
I match Gov. JBC's testimony to the Z-film.
But even without JBC's testimony (and that of his wife), to my layman's eye, JBC is shot at ~z-295 and is indeed a bit pushed forward by the blow---which took out four inches of rub, and thus was meeting resistance as it passed through his body. (It is true, sometimes bullets will pass through a body, while the body remains relatively still, if only soft flesh or organs are struck).
JBC appears entirely uninjured right up ~Z-295.
I could on---JBC's surgeon said his opinion was that a separate bullet had struck JBC from the one that passed through JFK. Dr. Shaw had worked on 700 wartime gunshot victims.
Caveat emptor, and draw you own conclusions.
I have one question.
Are you freaking serious?
JBC turned and dipped to his right, then twisted so dramatically in his seat that he was facing directly at JFK, a 180 degree turn. And what do you suppose caused his right arm to suddenly flip upward at Z226, the same frame JFK's arms started upward.
Your explanation is a classic example of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. It simply doesn't fit with what we can plainly see for ourselves.
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JC-
My layman's take:
This is an image of JBC at Z-222 (see link below), JBC is sitting straight and upright, looks uninjured to me. You can see Jackie K. is looking with concern towards JFK. The President has already been shot. But JBC looks unharmed.
JBC may, or may not look alarmed (your call good as any) in the next few frames, but at this point he has heard the gunshot. I think he looks alarmed, startled, has sense of an impact behind him.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z222.jpg
OK, here we have the left profile of JBC's face (see link below), as he had turned around to look for JFK, after hearing the gunshot. That is what he testified. No sign of blood on JBC. This about 2.8 seconds after JFK has been shot.
JBC never testified to having been spun around by the shot that struck him. He testified that under his own power he turned around.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z271.jpg
~Z-295 this is where I think JBC is shot. Hard to tell, as his torso is below the door, out of view.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z295.jpg
Here JBC looks possibly to be pain:
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z298.jpg
More pain:
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z305.jpg
JBC is registering pain at Z-305, but that is 4.6 seconds after JFK was struck at Z-222.
JFK registered pain almost immediately during-after Z-222, as seen by Jackie K's reaction. Granted, not all people are alike...but seems like stretch that JBC would have such a delayed reaction.
If you read through Dr Shaw's WC and HSCA testimonies, you will see he is skeptical that one shot struck both JBC and JFK, and also wonders aloud where the shot that struck JBC's wrist came from.
Anyways, that my view.
Caveat emptor, and draw your own conclusions.
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JC-
My layman's take:
This is an image of JBC at Z-222 (see link below), JBC is sitting straight and upright, looks uninjured to me. You can see Jackie K. is looking with concern towards JFK. The President has already been shot. But JBC looks unharmed.
JBC may, or may not look alarmed (your call good as any) in the next few frames, but at this point he has heard the gunshot. I think he looks alarmed, startled, has sense of an impact behind him.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z222.jpg
OK, here we have the left profile of JBC's face (see link below), as he had turned around to look for JFK, after hearing the gunshot. That is what he testified. No sign of blood on JBC. This about 2.8 seconds after JFK has been shot.
JBC never testified to having been spun around by the shot that struck him. He testified that under his own power he turned around.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z271.jpg
~Z-295 this is where I think JBC is shot. Hard to tell, as his torso is below the door, out of view.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z295.jpg
Here JBC looks possibly to be pain:
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z298.jpg
More pain:
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z305.jpg
JBC is registering pain at Z-305, but that is 4.6 seconds after JFK was struck at Z-222.
JFK registered pain almost immediately during-after Z-222, as seen by Jackie K's reaction. Granted, not all people are alike...but seems like stretch that JBC would have such a delayed reaction.
If you read through Dr Shaw's WC and HSCA testimonies, you will see he is skeptical that one shot struck both JBC and JFK, and also wonders aloud where the shot that struck JBC's wrist came from.
Anyways, that my view.
Caveat emptor, and draw your own conclusions.
How can you possibly determine a look of concern on Jackies face from that distance, low resolution of the film, and JBC's head is directly between Jackie's face and Zapruder's camera. As for Connally, I believe Z222 is about the time the bullet struck him. It could have been a split second before, or a split second after but there is no reason to believe his reaction would be instantaneous with the strike. In fact his first visible reaction is the sudden upward motion of his right arm at Z226, the same frame JFK's arms started moving upward.
I agree that JBC had heard the earlier shot but I don't base that on the look on his face which is impossible to discern given the distance and resolution of the camera. What we can determine is that he had turned to his right upon hearing the first shot. We see him start that rightward turn of his torso at Z164. He is not reacting to the sound of the second shot because he would not have heard that by Z222. The muzzle velocity of the Carcano bullet was roughly twice the speed of sound so the bullet would have hit him before the sound reached him which is probably why he doesn't remember hearing the bullet that hit him.
JBC's testimony was that he turned in reaction to the first shot and did NOT see JFK following that first turn. He could only have seen him after he was hit by the second shot which we see in Z271. You are conflating what JBC said about his reaction to the first shot with what he did following the second shot.
Z295 is where you really go off the rails. How could JBC have been shot in the back at that frame. The shot would have had to come from the south side of Elm St. and gone through Nellie Connally first.
Not surprising JBC would be in pain at Z298 since he had been shot about 4 seconds earlier although you couldn't judge that by the look on his face becase again the resolution is too poor to determine the look on anybody's face.
Yes, BOTH men had been hit about 4.5 seconds before Z305. Actually, by my calculations i's 4.6 but let's not quibble. Both men were hit about Z222 and both had been showing obvious signs of distress during that entire time frame..
How could Shaw offer any kind of informed opinion about whether the two men had been hit by one bullet or two. He only saw JBC's wounds. How could he determine whether or not the bullet that hit him had struck JFK first. ER surgeons are trained to patch up victims of gunshot wounds, not determine how their wounds were caused. That requires the expertise of a forensic medical examiner.
If I were you, I would seriously reconsider my view of what happened to JBC and when.
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JC-
Thanks for your comments.
Even if we ignore Jackie K's reaction, we see JFK at Z-226, obviously struck:
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z226.jpg
JBC is sitting bolt upright at Z-226. JBC's testimony is the shot that struck him in his back pushed him forward.
I will run with JBC's version of what happened to himself on this one. Witnesses can be in error, we all know that.
But JBC remembering receiving a blow in the back and getting pushed forward...that seems basic.
Hard to tell when JBC was struck, and the exact orientation of his torso. I concede all of that, which is why i say about Z-295. Might be later. The second gunsel was perhaps not in the TSBD.
JBC getting struck ~z-295 also lines up with many witnesses who heard a "bang.....bang-bang" cadence.
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We are on different pages on this one, but that happens in JFKA discussions.
I respect your views, I just disagree.
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JC-
Thanks for your comments.
Even if we ignore Jackie K's reaction, we see JFK at Z-226, obviously struck:
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z226.jpg
JBC is sitting bolt upright at Z-226. JBC's testimony is the shot that struck him in his back pushed him forward.
I will run with JBC's version of what happened to himself on this one. Witnesses can be in error, we all know that.
But JBC remembering receiving a blow in the back and getting pushed forward...that seems basic.
Hard to tell when JBC was struck, and the exact orientation of his torso. I concede all of that, which is why i say about Z-295. Might be later. The second gunsel was perhaps not in the TSBD.
JBC getting struck ~z-295 also lines up with many witnesses who heard a "bang.....bang-bang" cadence.
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We are on different pages on this one, but that happens in JFKA discussions.
I respect your views, I just disagree.
Hi Ben, when all the individual facts are analysed, the SBF(Single Bullet Fact) is the only possible conclusion.
Dr Gregory said the wound was a linear wound and by his size description the bullet entry had to have hit at either a more obtuse angle or a tumbling bullet and since we know the bullets path through Connally this effectively rules out an obtuse angle.
(https://i.postimg.cc/QMGF7Pt4/Gregory-ex-1-Connally-bullet-path.jpg)
Mr. SPECTER - What did the wound of entry look like, Doctor?
Dr. GREGORY - It appeared to me that the wound of entry was sort of a linear wound, perhaps three-quarters of an inch in length with a rounded central portion. Whereas, the wound of exit was rather larger than this, perhaps an inch and a half across.
And as the WC investigated, a full on bullet smashes, Connally's wrist wound was only a fracture therefore caused by a slower moving bullet.
(https://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/images/9/90/Photo_hsca_ex_84.jpg)
(https://s15.postimg.cc/rqxn6t1x7/connally_xray_copare.jpg)
Dr Gregory again describes a chaotically moving bullet.
Mr. SPECTER - Dr. Gregory, what was then the relative size of the wounds on the back and front side of the wrist itself?
Dr. GREGORY - As I recall them, the wound dimensions would be so far as the wound on the back of the wrist is concerned about a haft a centimeter by two and a half centimeters in length. It was rather linear in nature. The upper end of it having apparently lost some tissue was gapping more than the lower portion of it.
Dr Lattimer did a lot of practical experiments, in the following image Lattimer reproduced Kennedy's neck with a suitable substitute, and the resulting trajectory in the distance between Kennedy and Connally was a tumbling bullet, which as seen in nearly all cases caused a "linear" wound, the same type of wound as seen by Gregory on Connally. This evidence alone is powerful incontrovertible evidence but there is much more evidence, much more!
(https://i.postimg.cc/rprpF9NQ/tumbling-carcano-lattimer-zps56ahhtdp.jpg)
For a change, here's the Zapruder film reversed and it's easy to see Connally and Kennedy are both reacting simultaneously.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y920yQwJ/SBT-backwards.gif)
As Connally emerges from behind the sign his jacket billows as CE399 and the expulsion of matter passes through and his right shoulder thrusts forward as his left shoulder violently raises.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8v-YQb6mFo0/WVXcxF5rw4I/AAAAAAABMJE/Ge6Ef1RgHQkDioCxaoghpM0Npv6-xgpIACLcBGAs/s1600/Z-Film-Clip-SBT-In-Motion---3.gif)
At the same split second both Connally and Kennedy react simultaneously
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pqHV1ZHUal0/WRo7Bc8dH6I/AAAAAAABL0I/3gbqoFJwHNcLEdSUbfxa898LwU5wdhVRACLcB/s1600/Z225-Z226.gif)
Connally's hat flip and look of immense pain happen before Z230.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Jbpymw7jW20/WMzJdh_W5AI/AAAAAAABLkU/Eyc_-irXYv8vxMwinJVEiKJvO4iv0IIwQCLcB/s1600/Z-Film%2BClip-SBT-In-Motion.gif)
JohnM
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JC-
My layman's take:
This is an image of JBC at Z-222 (see link below), JBC is sitting straight and upright, looks uninjured to me. You can see Jackie K. is looking with concern towards JFK. The President has already been shot. But JBC looks unharmed.
JBC may, or may not look alarmed (your call good as any) in the next few frames, but at this point he has heard the gunshot. I think he looks alarmed, startled, has sense of an impact behind him.
(https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z222.jpg)
OK, here we have the left profile of JBC's face (see link below), as he had turned around to look for JFK, after hearing the gunshot. That is what he testified. No sign of blood on JBC. This about 2.8 seconds after JFK has been shot.
JBC never testified to having been spun around by the shot that struck him. He testified that under his own power he turned around.
(https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z271.jpg)
~Z-295 this is where I think JBC is shot. Hard to tell, as his torso is below the door, out of view.
(https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z295.jpg)
Here JBC looks possibly to be pain:
(https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z298.jpg)
More pain:
(https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z305.jpg)
JBC is registering pain at Z-305, but that is 4.6 seconds after JFK was struck at Z-222.
JFK registered pain almost immediately during-after Z-222, as seen by Jackie K's reaction. Granted, not all people are alike...but seems like stretch that JBC would have such a delayed reaction.
If you read through Dr Shaw's WC and HSCA testimonies, you will see he is skeptical that one shot struck both JBC and JFK, and also wonders aloud where the shot that struck JBC's wrist came from.
Anyways, that my view.
Caveat emptor, and draw your own conclusions.
I appreciate you backing up your thoughts with visuals but I'm not sure if you're aware that if you highlight your link and click on the image icon, you can have your image appear in your post.
Now you may have known this already and are just making your posts a little smaller and if so, kindly disregard this post! Thumb1:
JohnM
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JM-
Thanks for your comments.
I am out for a couple days, will respond soon.
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[JBC's] first visible reaction is the sudden upward motion of his right arm at Z226.
That's not correct, John. Governor Connally's first visible signs of distress occur in Z225 (facial distortion; his mouth opens; and, most significant, the flinching shoulders--a surefire "reflex action" to an external stimulus).
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj6ae0yfUIYv4qoif2IWD_cFHIYy_QHA6JTuelYWPSQqpRcJvruU71MRKkkBeQBIwZRAjhkXrlkDfx_0EsZ5sXAq0vYhbUCb3f9X7vW3Dw4nmpV9kk35sp6qFNkMq_JhH0rkqkdwpA-2p4T/s1600/110a.+Z224-Z225+Toggling+Clip.gif)
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JC-
Thanks for your comments.
Even if we ignore Jackie K's reaction, we see JFK at Z-226, obviously struck:
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z226.jpg
JBC is sitting bolt upright at Z-226. JBC's testimony is the shot that struck him in his back pushed him forward.
I will run with JBC's version of what happened to himself on this one. Witnesses can be in error, we all know that.
But JBC remembering receiving a blow in the back and getting pushed forward...that seems basic.
Hard to tell when JBC was struck, and the exact orientation of his torso. I concede all of that, which is why i say about Z-295. Might be later. The second gunsel was perhaps not in the TSBD.
JBC getting struck ~z-295 also lines up with many witnesses who heard a "bang.....bang-bang" cadence.
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We are on different pages on this one, but that happens in JFKA discussions.
I respect your views, I just disagree.
Yes, JFK was hit by Z226. In fact, that is the moment he reacted by suddenly raising both arms. What you ignore is that is the same frame JBC suddenly flipped his right arm upward. What do you suppose caused him to do that. Was he anticipating getting shot. It seems quite a coincidence to me that both men would suddenly flip their arms upward simultaneously if they had not both been hit by the same bullet.
You are not going with JBC. He thought he was hit about Z230. He apparently bases that guess on seeing the reaction he remembers making upon being struck, which was a cognitive reaction. His involuntary reflexive action happened quicker and began a few frames earlier. He had no memory of flipping his arm upward. I think I remember reading somewhere that JBC didn't even know his wrist had been shattered until he came out of surgery, although I don't remember the source for that.
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That's not correct, John. Governor Connally's first visible signs of distress occur in Z225 (facial distortion; his mouth opens; and, most significant, the flinching shoulders--a surefire "reflex action" to an external stimulus).
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj6ae0yfUIYv4qoif2IWD_cFHIYy_QHA6JTuelYWPSQqpRcJvruU71MRKkkBeQBIwZRAjhkXrlkDfx_0EsZ5sXAq0vYhbUCb3f9X7vW3Dw4nmpV9kk35sp6qFNkMq_JhH0rkqkdwpA-2p4T/s1600/110a.+Z224-Z225+Toggling+Clip.gif)
I supposed we could quibble about whether the movement in JBC's shoulders is a reaction to being shot or simply the force of the bullet driving it forward and downward. Ditto for the open mouth which could be air being driven forcefully from his lung. What is clear is we see both men's arms suddenly being raised at the same frame which is Z226.
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That's not correct, John. Governor Connally's first visible signs of distress occur in Z225 (facial distortion; his mouth opens; and, most significant, the flinching shoulders--a surefire "reflex action" to an external stimulus).
I would say the first visible sign of Connally in distress occurs at Zapruder Frame 223.
As well as a slight change in Connally's Facial expression, and Irrespective of Zapruder's Camera Jitter, you can see the gap space between his Jacket Lapel and his Neck Tie increase dramatically.
(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Flinch.gif)
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I would say the first visible sign of Connally in distress occurs at Zapruder Frame 223.
As well as a slight change in Connally's Facial expression, and Irrespective of Zapruder's Camera Jitter, you can see the gap space between his Jacket Lapel and his Neck Tie increase dramatically.
(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Flinch.gif)
I think trying to read facial expressions with such a low resolution camera, even when the frames are enlarged, is an exercise in educated guessing. The movement of the shoulders at Z225 is a bit more pronounced but that could be the physical force of the bullet or it could be a reflexive response. Either seems plausible to me. JBC had started rotating his torso back toward the front just before the single bullet struck so his shoulders were already in motion when we see the dip at Z225. What is clear is that we see both men's arms start moving upward at Z226. I have no doubt this is a reflexive response to the single bullet. JBC's right arm continues in a rapid up and down movement that lasts for 9 frames, about a half second, before it disappears below the side of the car. I don't know how anybody can look at that and conclude anything but it being a reflexive response to the bullet hitting his wrist, especially given it is the same frame JFK's arms start upward.
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I would say the first visible sign of Connally in distress occurs at Zapruder Frame 223.
As well as a slight change in Connally's Facial expression, and Irrespective of Zapruder's Camera Jitter, you can see the gap space between his Jacket Lapel and his Neck Tie increase dramatically.
(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Flinch.gif)
Yes that iz koz the slug struck at Z218, & the mini-lapel-flip iz a sign of the jacket bulge being well formed at that time (ie Z222)(ie 4 frames at 18.3 fps).
And the Z218 corresponds to Lattimer's bulge tests & hiz lapel flip (taken with his 30 fps still camera)(alltho Lattimer's slug landed at in effect Z219)(except that Lattimer's erroneous jacket (the lapel was very very long) & erroneous slug location (too high & allso the slug took a chunk out of the lapel) suggested that Z218 was the true number in 1963.
Z218 had jfk exaktly halfway along the sign (here i mean halfway along/throo the period where jfk dis-appears & re-appears).
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Yes that iz koz the slug struck at Z218, & the mini-lapel-flip iz a sign of the jacket bulge being well formed at that time (ie 4 frames at 18.3 fps).
And the Z218 corresponds to Lattimer's bulge tests & hiz lapel flip (taken with his 30 fps still camera)(alltho Lattimer's slug landed at in effect Z219)(except that Lattimer's erroneous jacket (the lapel was very very long) & erroneous slug location (too high & allso the slug took a chunk out of the lapel) suggested that Z218 was the true number in 1963.
Z218 had jfk exaktly halfway along the sign (here i mean halfway along/throo the period where jfk dis-appears & re-appears).
Any perceived reaction by JBC prior to Z225 is in the eye of the beholder. I don't see anything that clearly could be called a reaction to being shot. There is going to be a brief time lag between the bullet strike and JBC's reaction. It is my belief the bullet struck at about Z222. In Z223-224 I see nothing but JBC rotating his shoulders back to the front. The jacket bulge at Z224 is the force of the bullet, not a reaction by JBC. The movement at Z225 could also be the force of the bullet or a reaction by JBC. I'm not convinced one way ro the other.
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JM--
BTW, the tumbling theory SBT is entirely dead, and I am the man who killed it.
I found this photo of Gov. JBC's assassination-day shirt:
(https://i.postimg.cc/3JRGNWkK/Screen-Shot-2569-04-09-at-06-36-57.png)
At: https://www.tsl.texas.gov/sites/default/files/public/tslac/landing/documents/jfk-damaged-clothing18.pdf
A small round hole in the rear of JBC's shirt. Like a direct shot, no? A tumbling bullet did not make a small round hole in JBC's shirt.
Again in a nutshell, JBC says the shot that struck him pushed him forward.
Connally: I was knocked over, just doubled over by the force of the bullet. It went in my back and came out my chest about 2 inches below and the left of my right nipple. The force of the bullet drove my body over almost double and when I looked, immediately I could see I was just drenched with blood. (1 HSCA 42)
In addition, both JBC and his wife testified: first shot hit JFK, then JBC turned to look, began to turn forward, second shot hit JBC, and third shot hit JFK. All that happens in the run-up to ~Z-295.
Then we have testimony of Dr. Robert Shaw, JBC surgeon who had worked on 700 military war-time gunshot victims. Shaw thought the shot that had struck JBC likely was unimpeded by anything (straight shot).
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/pdf/WH6_Shaw.pdf
Shaw also found inexplicable the wound to the dorsal (wristwatch) side of JBC's wrist, as confirmed by Dr. Gregory (Connally's wrist surgeon). In other words, the bullet entered JBC's wrist about where a wristwatch face would be, and exited the dorsal (opposite) side. Try holding your wristwatch face in front on your navel to get an idea of some problems presented by this awkward scenario.
Anatomical Implausibility: Shaw expressed doubt (to the HSCA) regarding how a single bullet could transition from the Governor's chest into the dorsal (back) side of his wrist, suggesting it would be anatomically difficult for the Governor to have held his arm in such a position.--AI
Like others, I have looked at the Z-film many times. I just do not see any sign that JBC is in severe pain after in the frames following Z-222-225. He may look startled, or he may look like nothing.
However, JBC indisputably makes a 180-degree in his seat to look for JFK after Z-225, around Z-265.
So, if JBC was struck by the same shot that struck JFK, he then made a 180-degree turn in his seat...after being shot through the chest, and having his right wrist shattered and a slug burrowing into his left thigh. That is the SBT contention.
For me, that does not hold water.
Then, we have the "bang....bang-bang" sequence most earwitnesses heard. That lines up better with my scenario.
The shot to JBC's wrist remains a curiosity--a shot from the GK? I don't know.
PS. This is a picture of the exit hole in JBC's assassination-day jacket. The bullet did not exit through the lapel.
(https://i.postimg.cc/KYywx608/Screen-Shot-2569-04-09-at-07-17-16.png)
Hey, just IMHO.
Caveat emptor, and draw your own conclusions
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JM--
BTW, the tumbling theory SBT is entirely dead, and I am the man who killed it.
I found this photo of Gov. JBC's assassination-day shirt:
(https://i.postimg.cc/3JRGNWkK/Screen-Shot-2569-04-09-at-06-36-57.png)
At: https://www.tsl.texas.gov/sites/default/files/public/tslac/landing/documents/jfk-damaged-clothing18.pdf
A small round hole in the rear of JBC's shirt. Like a direct shot, no? A tumbling bullet did not make a small round hole in JBC's shirt.
Thanks Ben, I looked into this and researched what happens to fabric when acted upon with a bullet because at face value something didn't add up, for a start the hole appears to be square and the dimensions of the hole exceed the size of a 6.5 mm Carcano bullet and on either side of the hole, the fabric was excessively ragged.
Then as they say in the classics, corroborated evidence is some of the best evidence, so I went back to Dr. Gregory's testimony where he says that the bullet entrance was linear and perhaps 3/4 of an inch long and looking closely at the higher quality image of Connally's shirt it became immediately apparent that the shredding started at a point which corresponds with the approximate size of the actual wound, now we are getting somewhere.
So next I investigated the properties of fabric after a bullet passed through and as I posted, in every example the hole was far less than the diameter of the bullet and in each case we see the familiar shredding as seen on Connally shirt. Ergo the bullet struck Connally's shirt while the bullet was yawing.
Mr. SPECTER - What did the wound of entry look like, Doctor?
Dr. GREGORY - It appeared to me that the wound of entry was sort of a linear wound, perhaps three-quarters of an inch in length with a rounded central portion. Whereas, the wound of exit was rather larger than this, perhaps an inch and a half across.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7ZnBgm3W/Dr-shaw-WC-testimony-tumbling-opinion.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/W4HQdX1m/Connally-shirt-right-armpit-hole-2.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/7Ld5B9xQ/9mm-fmj-bullet-cloth.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/GpHBJV1y/bullet-wipe-knit-fabric.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/J45B1jqG/bullet-wipe-fabric.jpg)
JohnM
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JM-
Thanks for your collegial comments (it is pleasant to have a conversation about the JFKA, rather than catcalling).
You are correct; FBI lab guys did cut some cloth from hole in the rear of JBC's shirt to test for metallics. If I recall correctly, this happened again during the HSCA. So the original hole was actually smaller, and even more-indicative, of a non-tumbling bullet.
Dr. Shaw would also say he thought the bullet hole in JBC's back was a puncture type wound, but delivered at a downward angle, leaving an "ovoid" wound shape. That original shape was nearly obliterated by "debriding the wound" when they cut away dead tissue.
This "debriding" left the larger wound scar, which some incorrectly assumed was the result of a tumbling bullet.
But hey, just IMHO.
At bottom, I have reasonable doubts about nearly every explanation of the wounds received 11.22 by JBC and JFK. Including my own favored scenario.
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TG-
We have belabored this point a few times.
I match Gov. JBC's testimony to the Z-film.
But even without JBC's testimony (and that of his wife), to my layman's eye, JBC is shot at ~z-295 and is indeed a bit pushed forward by the blow---which took out four inches of rub, and thus was meeting resistance as it passed through his body. (It is true, sometimes bullets will pass through a body, while the body remains relatively still, if only soft flesh or organs are struck).
JBC appears entirely uninjured right up ~Z-295.
I could on---JBC's surgeon said his opinion was that a separate bullet had struck JBC from the one that passed through JFK. Dr. Shaw had worked on 700 wartime gunshot victims.
Caveat emptor, and draw you own conclusions.
Can I ask a question. When was the last time you had your eyes checked. You might want to schedule a visit to the optometrist if you don't see evidence that JBC was hit until Z295.
As for Shaw, how the hell would he know whether the bullet that hit JBC had first hit JFK. He only treated JFK.
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Ben Cole: Question, please (yes, belaboring the belaboring): You see NO SIGNs/INDICATIONS of JC being wounded in this gif? Why is JC twisting and turning and apparently grimacing? These are frames Z223 to Z248. Yes, round and round we go but sometimes we can stop.
(https://www.drivehq.com/file/DFPublishFile.aspx/FileID13396216206/Keyopo87omrqgsk/ezgif-8c6df0ec86e05e78.gif)
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Removed: double post
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SMG--
Thanks for your collegial comment.
Well...it sure is open to interpretation.
Does JBC look startled by the sound of gunfire and an impact in his vicinity? Or is he struck himself?
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z224.jpg
In the above frame, JFK has already been struck. JBC is as straight as a flag pole.
I do wonder about JBC's right hand, which appears to holding his cowboy hat a little high in relation to his body, for a shot to have passed through the wrist and then into his leg.
Well, I am sure we both have our views on this topic, and maybe we are not on the same page.
That is what a forum is for.