On the Trail of Delusion, Episode 32, The Single-Bullet Theory Panel Discussion

[Tom Graves]

TG-

We have belabored this point a few times.

I match Gov. JBC's testimony to the Z-film.

But even without JBC's testimony (and that of his wife), to my layman's eye, JBC is shot at ~z-295 and is indeed a bit pushed forward by the blow---which took out four inches of rub, and thus was meeting resistance as it passed through his body. (It is true, sometimes bullets will pass through a body, while the body remains relatively still, if only soft flesh or organs are struck).

JBC appears entirely uninjured right up ~Z-295.

I could on---JBC's surgeon said his opinion was that a separate bullet had struck JBC from the one that passed through JFK. Dr. Shaw had worked on 700 wartime gunshot victims.

Caveat emptor, and draw you own conclusions.

LOL!

[John Corbett]

TG-

We have belabored this point a few times.

I match Gov. JBC's testimony to the Z-film.

But even without JBC's testimony (and that of his wife), to my layman's eye, JBC is shot at ~z-295 and is indeed a bit pushed forward by the blow---which took out four inches of rub, and thus was meeting resistance as it passed through his body. (It is true, sometimes bullets will pass through a body, while the body remains relatively still, if only soft flesh or organs are struck).

JBC appears entirely uninjured right up ~Z-295.

I could on---JBC's surgeon said his opinion was that a separate bullet had struck JBC from the one that passed through JFK. Dr. Shaw had worked on 700 wartime gunshot victims.

Caveat emptor, and draw you own conclusions.

I have one question.

Are you freaking serious?

JBC turned and dipped to his right, then twisted so dramatically in his seat that he was facing directly at JFK, a 180 degree turn. And what do you suppose caused his right arm to suddenly flip upward at Z226, the same frame JFK's arms started upward.

Your explanation is a classic example of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. It simply doesn't fit with what we can plainly see for ourselves.

[Benjamin Cole]

JC-

My layman's take:

This is an image of JBC at Z-222 (see link below), JBC is sitting straight and upright, looks uninjured to me. You can see Jackie K. is looking with concern towards JFK. The President has already been shot. But JBC looks unharmed.

JBC may, or may not look alarmed (your call good as any) in the next few frames, but at this point he has heard the gunshot. I think he looks alarmed, startled, has sense of an impact behind him.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z222.jpg

OK, here we have the left profile of JBC's face (see link below), as he had turned around to look for JFK, after hearing the gunshot. That is what he testified. No sign of blood on JBC. This about 2.8 seconds after JFK has been shot.

JBC never testified to having been spun around by the shot that struck him. He testified that under his own power he turned around.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z271.jpg

~Z-295 this is where I think JBC is shot. Hard to tell, as his torso is below the door, out of view.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z295.jpg

Here JBC looks possibly to be pain:

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z298.jpg

More pain:

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z305.jpg

JBC is registering pain at Z-305, but that is 4.6 seconds after JFK was struck at Z-222.

JFK registered pain almost immediately during-after Z-222, as seen by Jackie K's reaction. Granted, not all people are alike...but seems like stretch that JBC would have such a delayed reaction.

If you read through Dr Shaw's WC and HSCA testimonies, you will see he is skeptical that one shot struck both JBC and JFK, and also wonders aloud where the shot that struck JBC's wrist came from.

Anyways, that my view.

Caveat emptor, and draw your own conclusions.

[John Corbett]

JC-

My layman's take:

This is an image of JBC at Z-222 (see link below), JBC is sitting straight and upright, looks uninjured to me. You can see Jackie K. is looking with concern towards JFK. The President has already been shot. But JBC looks unharmed.

JBC may, or may not look alarmed (your call good as any) in the next few frames, but at this point he has heard the gunshot. I think he looks alarmed, startled, has sense of an impact behind him.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z222.jpg

OK, here we have the left profile of JBC's face (see link below), as he had turned around to look for JFK, after hearing the gunshot. That is what he testified. No sign of blood on JBC. This about 2.8 seconds after JFK has been shot.

JBC never testified to having been spun around by the shot that struck him. He testified that under his own power he turned around.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z271.jpg

~Z-295 this is where I think JBC is shot. Hard to tell, as his torso is below the door, out of view.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z295.jpg

Here JBC looks possibly to be pain:

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z298.jpg

More pain:

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z305.jpg

JBC is registering pain at Z-305, but that is 4.6 seconds after JFK was struck at Z-222.

JFK registered pain almost immediately during-after Z-222, as seen by Jackie K's reaction. Granted, not all people are alike...but seems like stretch that JBC would have such a delayed reaction.

If you read through Dr Shaw's WC and HSCA testimonies, you will see he is skeptical that one shot struck both JBC and JFK, and also wonders aloud where the shot that struck JBC's wrist came from.

Anyways, that my view.

Caveat emptor, and draw your own conclusions.

How can you possibly determine a look of concern on Jackies face from that distance, low resolution of the film, and JBC's head is directly between Jackie's face and Zapruder's camera. As for Connally, I believe Z222 is about the time the bullet struck him. It could have been a split second before, or a split second after but there is no reason to believe his reaction would be instantaneous with the strike. In fact his first visible reaction is the sudden upward motion of his right arm at Z226, the same frame JFK's arms started moving upward.

I agree that JBC had heard the earlier shot but I don't base that on the look on his face which is impossible to discern given the distance and resolution of the camera. What we can determine is that he had turned to his right upon hearing the first shot. We see him start that rightward turn of his torso at Z164. He is not reacting to the sound of the second shot because he would not have heard that by Z222. The muzzle velocity of the Carcano bullet was roughly twice the speed of sound so the bullet would have hit him before the sound reached him which is probably why he doesn't remember hearing the bullet that hit him.

JBC's testimony was that he turned in reaction to the first shot and did NOT see JFK following that first turn. He could only have seen him after he was hit by the second shot which we see in Z271. You are conflating what JBC said about his reaction to the first shot with what he did following the second shot.

Z295 is where you really go off the rails. How could JBC have been shot in the back at that frame. The shot would have had to come from the south side of Elm St. and gone through Nellie Connally first.

Not surprising JBC would be in pain at Z298 since he had been shot about 4 seconds earlier although you couldn't judge that by the look on his face becase again the resolution is too poor to determine the look on anybody's face.

Yes, BOTH men had been hit about 4.5 seconds before Z305. Actually, by my calculations i's 4.6 but let's not quibble. Both men were hit about Z222 and both had been showing obvious signs of distress during that entire time frame..

How could Shaw offer any kind of informed opinion about whether the two men had been hit by one bullet or two. He only saw JBC's wounds. How could he determine whether or not the bullet that hit him had struck JFK first. ER surgeons are trained to patch up victims of gunshot wounds, not determine how their wounds were caused. That requires the expertise of a forensic medical examiner.

If I were you, I would seriously reconsider my view of what happened to JBC and when.

[Benjamin Cole]

JC-

Thanks for your comments.

Even if we ignore Jackie K's reaction, we see JFK at Z-226, obviously struck:

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z226.jpg

JBC is sitting bolt upright at Z-226. JBC's testimony is the shot that struck him in his back pushed him forward.

I will run with JBC's version of what happened to himself on this one. Witnesses can be in error, we all know that.

But JBC remembering receiving a blow in the back and getting pushed forward...that seems basic.

Hard to tell when JBC was struck, and the exact orientation of his torso. I concede all of that, which is why i say about Z-295. Might be later. The second gunsel was perhaps not in the TSBD.

JBC getting struck ~z-295 also lines up with many witnesses who heard a "bang.....bang-bang" cadence.

---

We are on different pages on this one, but that happens in JFKA discussions.

I respect your views, I just disagree.

[John Mytton]

JC-

Thanks for your comments.

Even if we ignore Jackie K's reaction, we see JFK at Z-226, obviously struck:

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z226.jpg

JBC is sitting bolt upright at Z-226. JBC's testimony is the shot that struck him in his back pushed him forward.

I will run with JBC's version of what happened to himself on this one. Witnesses can be in error, we all know that.

But JBC remembering receiving a blow in the back and getting pushed forward...that seems basic.

Hard to tell when JBC was struck, and the exact orientation of his torso. I concede all of that, which is why i say about Z-295. Might be later. The second gunsel was perhaps not in the TSBD.

JBC getting struck ~z-295 also lines up with many witnesses who heard a "bang.....bang-bang" cadence.

---

We are on different pages on this one, but that happens in JFKA discussions.

I respect your views, I just disagree.

Hi Ben, when all the individual facts are analysed, the SBF(Single Bullet Fact) is the only possible conclusion.

Dr Gregory said the wound was a linear wound and by his size description the bullet entry had to have hit at either a more obtuse angle or a tumbling bullet and since we know the bullets path through Connally this effectively rules out an obtuse angle.



Mr. SPECTER - What did the wound of entry look like, Doctor?
Dr. GREGORY - It appeared to me that the wound of entry was sort of a linear wound, perhaps three-quarters of an inch in length with a rounded central portion. Whereas, the wound of exit was rather larger than this, perhaps an inch and a half across.

And as the WC investigated, a full on bullet smashes, Connally's wrist wound was only a fracture therefore caused by a slower moving bullet.





Dr Gregory again describes a chaotically moving bullet.

Mr. SPECTER - Dr. Gregory, what was then the relative size of the wounds on the back and front side of the wrist itself?
Dr. GREGORY - As I recall them, the wound dimensions would be so far as the wound on the back of the wrist is concerned about a haft a centimeter by two and a half centimeters in length. It was rather linear in nature. The upper end of it having apparently lost some tissue was gapping more than the lower portion of it.

Dr Lattimer did a lot of practical experiments, in the following image Lattimer reproduced Kennedy's neck with a suitable substitute, and the resulting trajectory in the distance between Kennedy and Connally was a tumbling bullet, which as seen in nearly all cases caused a "linear" wound, the same type of wound as seen by Gregory on Connally. This evidence alone is powerful incontrovertible evidence but there is much more evidence, much more!



For a change, here's the Zapruder film reversed and it's easy to see Connally and Kennedy are both reacting simultaneously.



As Connally emerges from behind the sign his jacket billows as CE399 and the expulsion of matter passes through and his right shoulder thrusts forward as his left shoulder violently raises.



At the same split second both Connally and Kennedy react simultaneously



Connally's hat flip and look of immense pain happen before Z230.



JohnM

[John Mytton]

JC-

My layman's take:

This is an image of JBC at Z-222 (see link below), JBC is sitting straight and upright, looks uninjured to me. You can see Jackie K. is looking with concern towards JFK. The President has already been shot. But JBC looks unharmed.

JBC may, or may not look alarmed (your call good as any) in the next few frames, but at this point he has heard the gunshot. I think he looks alarmed, startled, has sense of an impact behind him.



OK, here we have the left profile of JBC's face (see link below), as he had turned around to look for JFK, after hearing the gunshot. That is what he testified. No sign of blood on JBC. This about 2.8 seconds after JFK has been shot.

JBC never testified to having been spun around by the shot that struck him. He testified that under his own power he turned around.



~Z-295 this is where I think JBC is shot. Hard to tell, as his torso is below the door, out of view.



Here JBC looks possibly to be pain:



More pain:



JBC is registering pain at Z-305, but that is 4.6 seconds after JFK was struck at Z-222.

JFK registered pain almost immediately during-after Z-222, as seen by Jackie K's reaction. Granted, not all people are alike...but seems like stretch that JBC would have such a delayed reaction.

If you read through Dr Shaw's WC and HSCA testimonies, you will see he is skeptical that one shot struck both JBC and JFK, and also wonders aloud where the shot that struck JBC's wrist came from.

Anyways, that my view.

Caveat emptor, and draw your own conclusions.

I appreciate you backing up your thoughts with visuals but I'm not sure if you're aware that if you highlight your link and click on the image icon, you can have your image appear in your post.
Now you may have known this already and are just making your posts a little smaller and if so, kindly disregard this post!

JohnM