Lee Oswald The Cop Killer

[Mitch Todd]

Mr. BELIN - All right. Now, you said you saw the man with the gun throw the shells?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Well, did you see the man empty his gun?
Mr. BENAVIDES - That is what he was doing. He took one out and threw it

The S&W revolver is designed to extract all spent shells by a single stroke of the extractor. The shells are NOT removed one at a time.

Mr. BALL. And what did you see the man doing?
Mrs. DAVIS. Well, first off she went to screaming before I had paid too much attention to him, and pointing at him, and he was, what I thought, was emptying the gun.
Mr. BALL. He had a gun in his hand?
Mrs. DAVIS. Yes.

The S&W revolver is designed to extract all spent shells by a single stroke of the extractor. The shells are NOT removed one at a time.

Mr. BELIN. Did you see anything else as you heard her screaming?
Mrs. DAVIS. Well, we saw Oswald. We didn't know it was Oswald at the time. We saw that boy cut across the lawn emptying the shells out of the gun.

IOW...We didn't recognize the BOY as Oswald, it was later that they told us the BOY we saw was Oswald...

Mr. BALL. What did you see him doing?
Mr. GUINYARD. He came through there running and knocking empty shells out of his pistol and he had it up just like this with his hand.
Mr. BALL. With which hand?
Mr. GUINYARD. With his right hand; just kicking them out.
Mr. BALL. He had it up?

The S&W revolver is designed to extract all spent shells by a single stroke of the extractor. The shells are NOT removed one at a time.

Doesn't work the way that you seem to think it does. That mechanism is entirely dependent on the amount force applied to the ejector rod, and on how far you push the rod. It's not guaranteed to completely eject cases or cartridges, and there are situations where you don't want that to happen anyway. For instance, if you still have cartridges in the cylinder (or just still think you might), and you don't want to spill them onto the ground.

[Zeon Mason]

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What is this shooters thought process? Its seems very illogical.


A. Has revolver that does not eject shells thus giving opportunity to not leave shells at scene, but shooter chooses to remove shells and leave them at the scene.


B. Has a revolver that can eject all shells together in one single action, but chooses to remove shells one at time at the scene no less, rather than run away 1st to some location he can hide, and then remove ALL shells same time, reload.


C. Keeps revolver he just shot officer with, all way to Theater instead of discarding it, because he is planning have a last stand shootout, but then doesnt take Tippits revolver for extra firepower, because why? It certainly could not be for reason worried that Tippits revolver would implicate him, because he obviously doesnt care if he is dropping shells fired from his own revolver at the scene.

[Walt Cakebread]

Doesn't work the way that you seem to think it does. That mechanism is entirely dependent on the amount force applied to the ejector rod, and on how far you push the rod. It's not guaranteed to completely eject cases or cartridges, and there are situations where you don't want that to happen anyway. For instance, if you still have cartridges in the cylinder (or just still think you might), and you don't want to spill them onto the ground.

Maybe you're not as smart as you think you are.....Let's see what FBI agent Cortland Cunningham had to say about removing spent shells from the very revolver that allegedly belonged to Lee Oswald.


Mr. EISENBERG. Now, if a person using the gun and having it fully loaded with six bullets fired less than six bullets, can he use this ejector-extraction mechanism without losing his unfired bullets as well as the empty cartridge cases?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir--by merely tipping the weapon. The unfired cartridge is heavier, and will fall out of the cylinder into his hand. Then he can extract the cartridge cases and lead in more.
Mr. EISENBERG. Could you demonstrate that?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. If I may have a cartridge, please.
Mr. EISENBERG. Do you have any fired cartridges in the cylinder?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; I do. Prior to my appearance here today, this morning, I fired five cartridges in this weapon, and they are still in the cylinder.
Mr. EISENBERG. You are now placing an unfired--
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. An unfired cartridge in the sixth chamber of the cylinder. Now, in a normal way, you would hit the cylinder release, push in your hand like this, and tip it up. The unfired cartridge will fall right out into your hand, due to the fact that the chambers of the cylinder are naturally larger than the
cartridge you are loading in there for ease of putting them in. When you fire a cartridge in a revolver, the ease expands as wide as the cylinder. In other words, when the firing pin hits the primer, there is an explosion in the primer, the powder is ignited in the cartridge, and the terrific pressure will expand the cartridge case to tightly fit the chamber.
Mr. EISENBERG. I would like the record to show that when Mr. Cunningham tipped the revolver, the unfired bullet tipped out, but the five expended shells remained in.
The CHAIRMAN. Very well.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Cunningham, would you show how you would eject the five expended shells?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. yes. These are very difficult, by the way, to extract, due to the fact that the chamber has been rechambered. And as you can see, you get on your cartridge cases a little ballooning with these smaller diameter cases in the .38 Special.
Mr. EISENBERG. I would like the record to show that Mr. Cunningham extracted the five expended cartridge eases merely by one push of the ejector rod.
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yon won't be able to see it again, but when you eject a cartridge ease later on for the powder pattern test, I will show that you can have residues of unburned powder. That is what would happen if you ejected these cartridge cases in your hand. You would pick up unburned powder, residues, and partially burned powder.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Cunningham had ejected five cartridge cases from the revolver into his hand, and his right hand is now filled with small black particles, whose composition I am unable to determine.
Representative FORD. That would happen any time that you did it?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; every time you eject them, these particles will come out from the cylinder into your hand--unburned powder, partially burned powder, and gunpowder residues.
Representative FORD. Had you fired this morning these particular bullets?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; at 8:15.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Cunningham, these cartridge cases which you ejected were .38 Special cartridge cases?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. They were.
Mr. EISENBERG. What time did you fire those bullets, those .38 Special bullets in this revolver?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. At approximately 8:15 this morning.

[Tim Nickerson]

B. Has a revolver that can eject all shells together in one single action, but chooses to remove shells one at time at the scene no less, rather than run away 1st to some location he can hide, and then remove ALL shells same time, reload.

From the WC TESTIMONY OF CORTLANDT CUNNINGHAM:

Mr. EISENBERG. I notice that one of the cartridge cases in Exhibit 595 is split on the side, Mr. Cunningham.
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. Why is that?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is due to the oversized chambers of this revolver. As I previously testified, the weapon was originally chambered for the .38 S&W, which is a wider cartridge than .38 Special. And when a .38 Special is fired in this particular weapon, the case form fits to the shape of each chamber. And in one of those cartridges, the metal just let go. Normally it does not; however this one particular case split slightly.
Representative FORD. Does that have any impact on the rest of the operation?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir. As a matter of fact, I test-fired the weapon originally, and I didn't even know it had split until I tried to eject it.


The split casing prevented Cunningham from removing all of the empty casings at the same time using the extractor. He had to remove them one at a time by hand. Oswald obviously experienced the same problem. One of the five shell casings had split. He removed four of them by hand at the scene of the shooting, and sometime before he reached the Texas Theatre the split casing and the chamber had cooled enough to allow him to remove that shell by hand.

[Mitch Todd]

Maybe you're not as smart as you think you are.....Let's see what FBI agent Cortland Cunningham had to say about removing spent shells from the very revolver that allegedly belonged to Lee Oswald.


Mr. EISENBERG. Now, if a person using the gun and having it fully loaded with six bullets fired less than six bullets, can he use this ejector-extraction mechanism without losing his unfired bullets as well as the empty cartridge cases?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir--by merely tipping the weapon. The unfired cartridge is heavier, and will fall out of the cylinder into his hand. Then he can extract the cartridge cases and lead in more.
Mr. EISENBERG. Could you demonstrate that?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. If I may have a cartridge, please.
Mr. EISENBERG. Do you have any fired cartridges in the cylinder?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; I do. Prior to my appearance here today, this morning, I fired five cartridges in this weapon, and they are still in the cylinder.
Mr. EISENBERG. You are now placing an unfired--
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. An unfired cartridge in the sixth chamber of the cylinder. Now, in a normal way, you would hit the cylinder release, push in your hand like this, and tip it up. The unfired cartridge will fall right out into your hand, due to the fact that the chambers of the cylinder are naturally larger than the
cartridge you are loading in there for ease of putting them in. When you fire a cartridge in a revolver, the ease expands as wide as the cylinder. In other words, when the firing pin hits the primer, there is an explosion in the primer, the powder is ignited in the cartridge, and the terrific pressure will expand the cartridge case to tightly fit the chamber.
Mr. EISENBERG. I would like the record to show that when Mr. Cunningham tipped the revolver, the unfired bullet tipped out, but the five expended shells remained in.
The CHAIRMAN. Very well.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Cunningham, would you show how you would eject the five expended shells?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. yes. These are very difficult, by the way, to extract, due to the fact that the chamber has been rechambered. And as you can see, you get on your cartridge cases a little ballooning with these smaller diameter cases in the .38 Special.
Mr. EISENBERG. I would like the record to show that Mr. Cunningham extracted the five expended cartridge eases merely by one push of the ejector rod.
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yon won't be able to see it again, but when you eject a cartridge ease later on for the powder pattern test, I will show that you can have residues of unburned powder. That is what would happen if you ejected these cartridge cases in your hand. You would pick up unburned powder, residues, and partially burned powder.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Cunningham had ejected five cartridge cases from the revolver into his hand, and his right hand is now filled with small black particles, whose composition I am unable to determine.
Representative FORD. That would happen any time that you did it?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; every time you eject them, these particles will come out from the cylinder into your hand--unburned powder, partially burned powder, and gunpowder residues.
Representative FORD. Had you fired this morning these particular bullets?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; at 8:15.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Cunningham, these cartridge cases which you ejected were .38 Special cartridge cases?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. They were.
Mr. EISENBERG. What time did you fire those bullets, those .38 Special bullets in this revolver?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. At approximately 8:15 this morning.

You can do it that way, but it;s not the only way you can do it. You might want to consider that the gunman didn't know how soon he would run into someone who was willing to phyically confront him; I doubt he wanted to waste time by dumping the live round then reloading it.

[Walt Cakebread]

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What is this shooters thought process? Its seems very illogical.


A. Has revolver that does not eject shells thus giving opportunity to not leave shells at scene, but shooter chooses to remove shells and leave them at the scene.


B. Has a revolver that can eject all shells together in one single action, but chooses to remove shells one at time at the scene no less, rather than run away 1st to some location he can hide, and then remove ALL shells same time, reload.


C. Keeps revolver he just shot officer with, all way to Theater instead of discarding it, because he is planning have a last stand shootout, but then doesnt take Tippits revolver for extra firepower, because why? It certainly could not be for reason worried that Tippits revolver would implicate him, because he obviously doesnt care if he is dropping shells fired from his own revolver at the scene.

Dom Benavides said he watched as Tippit's killer removed a spent shell from he revolver and tossed the shell away....

Hi Zeon....I'm amazed that nobody has proposed that the killer was merely making a "production" out of extracting a spent shell when in reality he already had a spent shell in his hand and never actually removed a spent shell to leave at the scene.    Thus he was planting spent shells just as the spent Carcano shells had been planted in the TSBD.

[Jerry Freeman]

Mr. BELIN - When you went back, what did you do? First of all, was there anything up to that time that you saw there or that you did that you haven't related here that you can think of right now?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Well, I started--I seen him throw the shells and I started to stop and pick them up, and I thought I'd better not so when I came back, after I had gotten back, I picked up the shells.

That just sounded so silly.

Mr. BELIN - There was another passerby that stopped?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Who was he, do you know?
Mr. BENAVIDES - I couldn't tell you. I don't know who he was.
Mr. BELIN - Was he driving a car or walking?
Mr. BENAVIDES - I don't know.

That sounded silly too.

Mr. BELIN - What else did you see?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Then I seen the man turn and walk back to the sidewalk and go on the sidewalk and he walked maybe 5 foot and then kind of stalled. He didn't exactly stop. And he threw one shell and must have took five or six more steps and threw the other shell up, and then he kind of stepped up to a pretty good trot going around the corner.

"Threw the other shell up" ..like weeee? Anyway like has been pointed out...the ejector rod is used to extract the shells and further...after someone fires off rounds like this and tries to touch the shells after they are removed will burn the crap out of their fingers.

Mr. BELIN - Did you later go back in that area and try and find the shells?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes. Well, right after that I went back and I knew exactly where they was at, and I went over and picked up one in my hand, not thinking and I dropped it, that maybe they want fingerprints off it, so I took out an empty pack of cigarettes I had and picked them up with a little stick and put them in this cigarette package; a chrome looking shell.

Tampering with evidence automatically excludes it as evidence.

Mr. BELIN - You used the name Oswald. How did you know this man was Oswald?
Mr. BENAVIDES - From the pictures I had seen. It looked like a guy, resembled the guy. That was the reason I figured it was Oswald.
Mr. BELIN - Were they newspaper pictures or television pictures, or both, or neither?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Well, television pictures and newspaper pictures. The thing lasted about a month, I believe, it seemed like.
Mr. BELIN - Pardon.
Mr. BENAVIDES - I showed--I believe they showed pictures of him every day for a long time there.

This witness was still scared and nervous and it is obvious that he hadn't seen Oswald but what the hell...it's what they wanted to hear.

[Walt Cakebread]

That just sounded so silly.That sounded silly too."Threw the other shell up" ..like weeee? Anyway like has been pointed out...the ejector rod is used to extract the shells and further...after someone fires off rounds like this and tries to touch the shells after they are removed will burn the crap out of their fingers.Tampering with evidence automatically excludes it as evidence.This witness was still scared and nervous and it is obvious that he hadn't seen Oswald but what the hell...it's what they wanted to hear.

This witness was still scared and nervous and it is obvious that he hadn't seen Oswald but what the hell...it's what they wanted to hear.

Bingo!....You nailed it Jerry....That's exactly right.