Lee Oswald The Cop Killer

[Martin Weidmann]

The shells at the Tippit scene were matched to the revolver Oswald had in his possession when he was arrested. That would be enough to convict anyone.

the revolver Oswald had in his possession when he was arrested

Which revolver would that be, Gerry?

[Gerry Down]

the revolver Oswald had in his possession when he was arrested

Which revolver would that be, Gerry?

The one currently at the national archives. If you dispute it was found on him, then you are going down the road of saying any evidence you don't like was planted. If you tried that as a lawyer in court, the judge would just ignore you.

[Gerry Down]

The national archives -- LOL

First it had to be admitted into evidence by the judge.

You're going down faster than I expected.

You have a weird concept of how courts of law operate. If you start claiming all the evidence against you is planted, you are going to jail.

[Martin Weidmann]

The one currently at the national archives. If you dispute it was found on him, then you are going down the road of saying any evidence you don't like was planted. If you tried that as a lawyer in court, the judge would just ignore you.

If you tried that as a lawyer in court, the judge would just ignore you.

Are you a legal eagle, to make that determination?

If you dispute it was found on him, then you are going down the road of saying any evidence you don't like was planted.

You've got it backwards. I don't have to dispute that this was the revolver that was found on him. You need to show, as part of your prima facie case, that it was indeed the revolver and by doing so you need to explain this;

Detective Hill was given the revolver they allegedly took from Oswald in the car at the Texas Theater and did not witness first hand it being taken from Oswald. He was told it was Oswald's.

Mr. BELIN. And being that he had the keys to the car, Bob Carroll drove the vehicle.
Mr. HILL. As he started to get in the car, he handed me a pistol, which he identified as the one that had been taken from the suspect in the theatre.
Mr. BELIN. When did he identify this to you?
Mr. HILL. I asked him was this his. He said, "No, it is the suspect's."

He then kept that revolver on his person until around 4 PM when he took it to the personnel office of DPD HQ, where he put his intials on it.

Mr. BELIN. Who put that name in there?
Mr. HILL. I did.
Mr. BELIN. When did you do that?
Mr. HILL. This was done at approximately 4 p.m., the afternoon of Friday, November 22, 1963, in the personnel office of the police department.

He then told the officers that were present in the room that this was the weapon taken from Oswald and had some of them (who were not even involved in the chain of custody) initial it as well.

Only then did Detective Hill Traffic cop Davenport (huh, where did he come from? He was at Methodist Hospital with Tippit) submit the revolver to the Identification Bureau of the DPD.

Detective Carroll, who was involved in the arrest of Oswald, did not put his initials on the revolver, despite the fact that he was indeed part of the chain of custody. So, they had him "identify" the weapon some five months after the events simply by looking at it. Who needs initials, right? Now, pay attention to the last question and answer;

Mr. BELIN. Well, today is the following Thursday. At that time we didn't have some of the exhibits here, Officer Carroll, and since then they have come in. I now want to hand you one of the exhibits which has been marked as Commission Exhibit 143 and ask you to state what that is?
Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir. It is a .38 caliber revolver with a blue steel 2" barrel with wooden handle.
Mr. BELIN. Have you ever seen this before?
Mr. CARROLL. Yes; I have.
Mr. BELIN. Where did you first see it?
Mr. CARROLL. I first saw it in the Texas Theatre on November 22, 1963.
Mr. BELIN. Would you just tell us about this weapon, when you first saw it?
Mr. CARROLL. The first time I saw the weapon, it was pointed in my direction and I reached and grabbed it and stuck it into my belt.
Mr. BELIN. What did you happen to be doing at the time?
Mr. CARROLL. At the time I was assisting in the arrest of Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know whose hand was on the gun when you saw it pointed in your direction?
Mr. CARROLL. No; I do not.

Feel free to assume that the revolver now in evidence at the National Archives is the one they took from Oswald, but without a proper chain of custody (i.e. where officers do not simply tell eachother it's the weapon) all you will ever have is an assumption.

[Martin Weidmann]

You have a weird concept of how courts of law operate. If you start claiming all the evidence against you is planted, you are going to jail.

O.J. Simpson's lawyers claimed the bloody glove was planted by police and he left jail... Go figure.

Please Gerry, don't say something as silly as that comment again, because it's really really really silly.

[Bill Chapman]

BILL CHAPMAN


BILL CHAPMAN

[Martin Weidmann]

I sense a disturbance in the force coming from a silly Canadian desperately begging for attention.   

[Martin Weidmann]

If the shoe fits:

Pedantic - a word used to describe someone who annoys others by correcting small errors, caring too much about minor details, or emphasizing their own expertise especially in some narrow or boring subject matter.

This from the guy who constantly complains about "strawman."  I have not argued that it "doesn't matter that the defendant couldn't have been at that location at that time."  To the contrary, what I have argued is that the evidence is conclusive that Oswald was at that location at the relevant time.  Numerous witnesses and the evidence confirm that conclusion beyond any reasonable doubt.  What you have been going on and and on about here for weeks in long rambling posts is ignoring that evidence and suggesting that a timeline that is vague and incomplete somehow creates doubt of a confirmed fact.  It doesn't.  It can't.  Because Oswald's presence is confirmed at the Tippit scene, at best (even accepting your dubious subjective claims as true) all your pedantic nitpicking about an ambiguous timeline can do is indicate that perhaps he didn't walk there.  Maybe he ran, maybe someone gave him a ride, maybe he found a jet pack and flew there like Superman.  However he did it doesn't matter except as a matter of some minor historical interest to fill in all the details on the movements of an assassin.  He was there because the evidence confirms that as a fact.  Thus we know that he had sufficient time to be there.

What you have been going on and and on about here for weeks in long rambling posts is ignoring that evidence and suggesting that a timeline that is vague and incomplete somehow creates doubt of a confirmed fact.  It doesn't.  '

Hey Richie, why don't you man up for once and tell us what exactly is wrong about the timeline I have presented?

Here it is again....

Markham leaves her home at "a little after 1" and is en route to the bus stop on Jefferson by 1:06 or 1:07
She only needs to walk one block to get from 9th street to 10th street. The FBI determined that the distance of one block takes about 2,5 minutes to walk. This gets Markham to the corner of 10th and Patton by 1:09:30 at the latest, perfectly on time to reach the bus stop on Jefferson at 1:11 or 1:12.

1:09            Shooting

Bowley picked up his daugther at school at 12:55 and is en route to pick up his wife from work. The distance between the school and 10th street takes about 13 to 15 minutes to drive. This gets him to 10th street at 1:10

1:10            Benevides making his call and Bowley arrives

Bowley says (in the video "Hunting Oswald") that when he arrived he noticed something was going on, so he parked his car at a fair distance away so his 12 year old daughter would not see it. He then walked towards the police car, checked on Tippit and then noticed Benavides who could not get the radio of the patrol car to work. It's a fair estimation that this would have taken him around 45 seconds. During this time Benavides is keying the mic in vain.

1:11            Bowley makes his call, lasting 46 seconds

DPD officers Poe and Jez (squad car 105) wrote in their supplementary offense report that at approximently 1:10 they heard on the radio that a police officer was involved in a shooting at East Tenth Street.

1:12            Callaway arrives at the scene

1:12:30       After checking on Tippit, Callaway makes his call and hears the ambulance's sirens in the background

                   Ambulance arrives. Callaway and Bowley help loading Tippit's body into the ambulance

1:12:45       DPD officer Croy is in his car at Zang and Colorado when he hears Bowley's radio call. It takes him no more than
                  1,5 to 2 minutes to arrive at 10th street. When he arrives he sees Tippit's body being loaded into the ambulance

1:13            The ambulance leaves. The distance to Methodist Hospital takes 2 minutes to drive in normal traffic. With sirens on
                   it takes less.

                   DPD officers Davenport and Bardin are in their car and see the ambulance pass by. They follow it and arrive at the
                   same time at as the ambulance at the hospital.

1:15            Ambulance arrives at Methodist Hospital and Tippit is declared DOA at 1:15
                   The DOA time is communicated to the Justice of the Peace who issues an Authorization for Autopsy which gives the
                   time of death as 1:15.
                   Davenport writes in his report that Tippit was declared dead at 1:15 and on the form he uses to deliver a bullet
                   taken from Tippit's body and a button from his uniform he writes in his own handwriting that Tippit was declared
                   DOA at 1:15

Go on then, Richie... tell me where the timeline is wrong.