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Author Topic: How Do LNers Deal With Givens?  (Read 4030 times)

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: How Do LNers Deal With Givens?
« Reply #70 on: September 15, 2026, 10:07:35 AM »
The WC Report tells us that the Sniper's Perch was mainly constructed using "Rolling Reader" boxes taken from a few aisles away from the SN. It tells us that there was a long paper bag found in the southeast corner which may have been used to carry the disassembled to that corner and that there was a box just by the Sniper's Perch which a shooter could sit on while assembling the rifle. It also tells us that it took a firearms expert around 6 minutes to assemble the rifle.
The impression we are left with is that the shooter took time to construct a Sniper's Perch using boxes from different areas on the 6th floor and assembled his rifle while hid in the Sniper's Nest.

Question - when, exactly, did all this preparation take place?

Online John Corbett

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Re: How Do LNers Deal With Givens?
« Reply #71 on: September 15, 2026, 12:23:17 PM »
The WC Report tells us that the Sniper's Perch was mainly constructed using "Rolling Reader" boxes taken from a few aisles away from the SN. It tells us that there was a long paper bag found in the southeast corner which may have been used to carry the disassembled to that corner and that there was a box just by the Sniper's Perch which a shooter could sit on while assembling the rifle. It also tells us that it took a firearms expert around 6 minutes to assemble the rifle.
The impression we are left with is that the shooter took time to construct a Sniper's Perch using boxes from different areas on the 6th floor and assembled his rifle while hid in the Sniper's Nest.

Question - when, exactly, did all this preparation take place?

We don't know when the preparation took place but since Oswald hadn't filled any of his assigned orders that morning, he had plenty of time. We also don't know whether he stacked the boxes to make the wall or just took advantage of what was there. A crew was laying a new floor and they might have stacked those boxes up to get them out of the way while they worked on another part of the floor. In any case, we know a wall of boxes had been built by someone, and we know Oswald had reassembled his rifle prior to using it to kill JFK. It is unnecessary to prove when he did it.

Online Michael T. Griffith

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Re: How Do LNers Deal With Givens?
« Reply #72 on: Today at 05:22:12 PM »
. . . and we know Oswald had reassembled his rifle prior to using it to kill JFK.

You don't "know" any such thing. As I have already proved to you, the ammo that hit JFK's behaved nothing like the ammo that Oswald allegedly, and the paraffin cast of Oswald's right check was tested with NAA and came back negative for any trace of gunshot reside, proving he did not fire a rifle on the day of the shooting (the FBI confirmed with a control test that the NAA was 100% accurate -- the paraffin cast of every single shooter in the control test tested positive for gunshot residue; in other words, NAA detected gunshot residue in the paraffin cast of every single shooter in the control test, an accuracy rate of 100%).

No wonder the FBI suppressed the results of the NAA testing of Oswald's right paraffin cast.

It is unnecessary to prove when he did it.

Of course! Yeah, who needs proof when you're emotionally committed to believing in Oswald's guilt?! This is right up there with your declarations that "I don't need a rational explanation" and "I don't need to be objective."

You've already proved you have no credible answer for the evidence that puts Oswald on the first and second floors of the TSBD shortly before, during, and within 40 seconds after the assassination. This is why Roy Truly did not see Oswald when Truly crossed the second-floor landing and headed up the stairs to the third floor no more than 85 seconds after the shooting, even though he was running 5-10 seconds ahead of Officer Baker. Oswald was already in the second-floor lunchroom when Baker saw him because he had just come there from the first floor to get a soda.


Online John Corbett

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Re: How Do LNers Deal With Givens?
« Reply #73 on: Today at 06:04:35 PM »
You don't "know" any such thing. As I have already proved to you, the ammo that hit JFK's behaved nothing like the ammo that Oswald allegedly, and the paraffin cast of Oswald's right check was tested with NAA and came back negative for any trace of gunshot reside, proving he did not fire a rifle on the day of the shooting (the FBI confirmed with a control test that the NAA was 100% accurate -- the paraffin cast of every single shooter in the control test tested positive for gunshot residue; in other words, NAA detected gunshot residue in the paraffin cast of every single shooter in the control test, an accuracy rate of 100%).

You seem to have a nutty idea that you prove things just by declaring them to be so. Real proof has a little bit higher bar than that.

Contrary to your claim, the NAA test was positive for barium and antimony but the WC found no significance in that since those elements can appear whether one has fired a weapon or not. Oswald did test negative in the standard paraffin test but the WC found that an FBI agent who fired Oswald's rifle three times was given the same test and that too came back negative.

For those interested, these are the results of the paraffin test and the NAA test of Oswald's cheek cast from Appendix 10 of the WCR, pages 560-562:

"The Paraffin Test

During the course of the interrogation of Lee Harvey Oswald following the assassination a paraffin test was performed by the Dallas police on both of his hands and his right cheek. The paraffin cast of Oswald's hands reacted positively to the test. The cast of the right cheek showed no reaction. 87

To perform the paraffin test, layers of warm liquid paraffin, inter-leaved with layers of gauze for reinforcement, are brushed or poured on the suspect's skin. The warm sticky paraffin opens the skin's pores and picks up any dirt and foreign material present at the surface. When the paraffin cools and hardens it forms a cast, which is taken off and processed with diphenylamine or diphenyl-

Page 561

benzidine, chemicals which turn blue in the presence of nitrates. Since gunpowder residues contain nitrates, the theory behind the test. is that if a cast reacts positively, i.e., if blue dots appear, it provides evidence that the suspect recently fired a weapon. 88 In fact, however, the test is completely unreliable in determining either whether a person has recently fired a weapon or whether he has not. 89 On the one hand, diphenylamine and diphenylbenzidine will react positively not only with nitrates from gunpowder residues, but nitrates from other sources and most oxidizing agents, including dichromates, per-manganates, hypochlorates, periodates, and some oxides. Thus, contact with tobacco, Clorox, urine, cosmetics, kitchen matches, pharmaceuticals, fertilizers, or soils, among other things, may result in a positive reaction to the paraffin test. Also, the mere handling of a weapon may leave nitrates on the skin. 90 A positive reaction is, therefore, valueless in determining whether a suspect has recently fired a weapon. Conversely, a person who has recently fired a weapon may not show a positive reaction to the paraffin test, particularly if the weapon was a rifle. A revolver is so constructed that there is a space between the cylinder, which bears the chambers, and the barrel. When a revolver is fired, nitrate-bearing gases escape through this space and may leave residues on the. hand. 91 In a rifle, however, there is no gap between the chamber and the barrel, and one would therefore not expect nitrates to be deposited upon a person's hands or cheeks as a result of his firing a rifle. As Cunningham testified:
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. ... I personally wouldn't expect to find any residues on a person's right cheek after firing a rifle due to the fact that by the very principles and the manufacture and the action, the cartridge itself is sealed into the chamber by the bolt being closed behind it, and upon firing the case, the cartridge case expands into the chamber filling it up and sealing it off from the gases, so none will come back in your face, and so by its very nature, I would not expect to find residue on the right. cheek of a shooter. 92
The unreliability of the paraffin test has been demonstrated by experiments run by the FBI. In one experiment, conducted prior to the assassination, paraffin tests were performed on 17 men who had just fired 5 shots with a .38-caliber revolver. Eight men tested negative in both hands, three men tested positive on the idle hand and negative on the firing hand, two men tested positive on the firing hand and negative on the idle hand, and four men tested positive on both their firing and idle hands. 93 In a second experiment, paraffin tests were per formed on 29 persons, 9 of whom had just fired a revolver or an automatic, and 20 of whom had not fired a weapon. All 29 persons tested positive on either or both hands. 94 In a third experiment, performed after the assassination, an agent of the FBI, using the C2766 rifle, fired

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three rounds of Western 6.5-millimeter Mannlicher-Carcano ammunition in rapid succession. A paraffin test was then performed on both of his hands and his right cheek. Both of his hands and his cheek tested negative. 95

The paraffin casts of Oswald's hands and right cheek were also examined by neutron-activation analyses at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory. Barium and antimony were found to be present on both surfaces of all the casts and also in residues from the rifle cartridge cases and the revolver cartridge cases. 96 Since barium and antimony were present in both the rifle and the revolver cartridge cases, their presence on the casts were not evidence that Oswald had fired the rifle. Moreover, the presence on the inside surface of the cheek cast of a lesser amount of barium, and only a slightly greater amount of antimony, than was found on the outside surface of the cast rendered it impossible to attach significance to the presence of these elements on the inside surface. Since the outside surface had not been in contact with Oswald's cheek, the barium and antimony found there had come from a source other than Oswald. Furthermore, while there was more barium and antimony present on the casts than would normally be found on the hands of a person who had not fired a weapon or handled a fired weapon, it is also true that barium and antimony may be present in many common items; for example, barium may be present in grease, ceramics, glass, paint, printing ink, paper, rubber, plastics, leather, cloth, pyrotechnics, oilcloth and linoleum, storage batteries, matches and cosmetics; antimony is present in matches, type metal, lead alloys, paints and lacquers, pigments for oil and water colors, flameproof textiles, storage batteries, pyrotechnics, rubber, pharmaceutical preparations and calico; and both barium and antimony are present in printed paper and cloth, paint, storage batteries, rubber, matches, pyrotechnics, and possibly other items. However, the barium and antimony present in these items are usually not present in a form which would lead to their adhering to the skin of a person who had handled such items."

It appears MTG conflated the negative paraffin test with the NAA test which proved positive. I'm sure MTG wouldn't have tried to deliberately mislead the readers of this forum.
« Last Edit: Today at 06:10:49 PM by John Corbett »

Online John Corbett

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Re: How Do LNers Deal With Givens?
« Reply #74 on: Today at 06:23:05 PM »

You've already proved you have no credible answer for the evidence that puts Oswald on the first and second floors of the TSBD shortly before, during, and within 40 seconds after the assassination. This is why Roy Truly did not see Oswald when Truly crossed the second-floor landing and headed up the stairs to the third floor no more than 85 seconds after the shooting, even though he was running 5-10 seconds ahead of Officer Baker. Oswald was already in the second-floor lunchroom when Baker saw him because he had just come there from the first floor to get a soda.

There is no credible evidence that Oswald was seen on either the first or second floor within 40 seconds of the assassination. He was spotted by Baker entering the second floor lunchroom shortly after the assassination. Truly did not see him because Oswald had already gone through the doorway into the lunchroom but Baker spotted him through the glass of the outer door. Maybe that was Baker's training as a cop to be alert to his surroundings or maybe he just happened to glance to his right and saw Oswald walking away from him. Either way, that does not establish Oswald's presence on the second floor "within 40 seconds after the assassination". We don't know how long after the last shot was fired that Baker spotted Oswald entering the lunchroom because nobody was timing either man that day. It can only be estimated through recreations how long after the shooting that Baker spotted Oswald. Both men's movements were timed twice during the recreations, and the shorter and longer time for Oswald's movements were shorter than the shorter and longer time of Baker's movements. Nothing in the recreations provides Oswald with an alibi because they do not preclude Oswald having fired the rifle and then reaching the lunchroom just ahead of Baker and Truly.