The JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate
How Do LNers Deal With Givens?
John Corbett:
--- Quote from: Zeon Mason on September 19, 2026, 05:40:05 PM ---7th floor would have been a good place to assemble the rifle but Oswald would have to bring the package from the 1st floor annex part of loading dock where he hid it that morning after entering about 30 secs ahead of BW Frazier.
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How do you know where Oswald hid the rifle that morning? Sounds like you are just guessing.
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So Frazier saw Oswald carrying a package go thru the 1st door that’s part of the annexed bldg that’s attached to the TSBD and then Oswald had 30 seconds to place the package somewhere (an open
Storage barrel perhaps ) unseen by Frazier doing so. Then when Oswald opened the back door of TSBD, Dougherty saw nothing in Oswalds hands.
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Pure assumption. Just because Dougherty didn't remember seeing Oswald with a package doesn't prove Oswald didn't have a package. People tend not to remember mundane details like that because they don't notice things like that. I would have to guess where Oswald hid the rifle that morning too, but i bet I could make a better guess than that.
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So anytime from 8:30 to 11:30, Oswald could possibly have gone into the annexed garage bldg probably using the rolled up door beside the 1st floor staircase , retrieved the package and he either took it up to 7 th floor using the stairs or by using one of the freight elevators.
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The possibilities for where Oswald hid the rifle and when he assembled it are almost limitless and anybody who thinks they know the answers is just guessing. If I were in his shoes, I would find an out-of-the-way hiding place and wait for everybody to go to lunch before assembling the rifle, then find a secluded spot with a good line of fire down Elm St., but Oswald wasn't obligated to do what I would have done. He got to make his own choices. I'd say him made some pretty good choices, even if I don't know what they were.
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Unfortunately I dont think There were any witnesses that have WC testimony that support this scenario and given that Dorothy Garner on the 4th floor probably did NOT wait 60 secs post shots to follow behind Adams and Stiles and given BW Fraziers 24 in estimate of the length of the bag, this hypothetical scenario is basically irrelevant.
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Almost all fill-in-the-blanks guesses are irrelevant because there is no evidence to support any of them. Only Oswald knew when and where he assembled the rifle and he's not talking.
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I just threw it out there as an LN option since most LNs are convinced the bag probably contained the disassembled MC rifle.
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If Oswald didn't smuggle the rifle into the TSBD in the 40 inch bag that had his palm print on it and fibers matching his rifle blanked, it just means he brought the rifle into the TSBD at some unknown time. I find it far more probable that Frazier simply misjudged the length of the bag than that Oswald brought his rifle into work at some other time.
Dan O'meara:
--- Quote from: John Corbett on September 19, 2026, 02:00:30 AM ---This is the kind of asinine comment we have come to expect from you. Of course we have to guess when Oswald assembled the rifle because nobody would know that except Oswald. Do you need every last freaking thing proven to you? You really are moron. Sorry. Just being honest.
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There's nothing asinine about that comment.
You are little more than a robot constantly spewing the Warren Commission's narrative.
Is there a single point or detail that you deviate from the Warren Commission Report?
And name a single thing - the tiniest thing - that you have proven to anyone. You don't even know the difference between a fact and a theory. How can you 'prove' anything if you don't know what a fact is?
You are the second worst kind of frothing-at-the-mouth, rabid zealot. Your only saving grace is that you don't hide what you are.
Name a single detail about the assassination where you differ from the Warren Commission's narrative.
And by the way - when did Oswald make his preparations? He was down on the first floor talking to Eddie Piper while Bonnie Ray was up on the 6th from noon until a few minutes before the Presidential limo entered Dealey Plaza.
Maybe he was the man with the rifle Arnold Rowland saw on the 6th floor.
Try to think for yourself for a change.
Tim Nickerson:
--- Quote from: Zeon Mason on September 19, 2026, 05:52:43 PM --- But those 7 people tested positive , so That kind of makes Oswald’s negative result an anomaly . So I’m trying to suggest the possibility Oswald having washed his face at the theater 65 minutes after the shooting and how probable the trace amount of nitrates could be removed from his face by washing with water and soap. If it is improbable , then the anomaly persists.
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Those 7 people never fired Oswald's rifle.
Zeon Mason:
--- Quote from: Tim Nickerson on September 20, 2026, 12:14:25 AM ---Those 7 people never fired Oswald's rifle.
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Good point Tim Thumb1: maybe there is some distinct specific difference with Oswald’s rifle that would prevent any trace of gunpowder from escaping the chamber even though it was exposed 3 times during the bolt operation ejection of shell and loading the next round?
What do you think about the CBS time trial shooters not having used Oswald’s rifle? Does that invalidate the fact that 3 shooters were actually able to fire 3 shots and get at least 2 hits in less than 6 seconds?
Zeon Mason:
--- Quote from: Dan O'meara on September 19, 2026, 10:38:28 PM ---There's nothing asinine about that comment.
You are little more than a robot constantly spewing the Warren Commission's narrative.
Is there a single point or detail that you deviate from the Warren Commission Report?
And name a single thing - the tiniest thing - that you have proven to anyone. You don't even know the difference between a fact and a theory. How can you 'prove' anything if you don't know what a fact is?
You are the second worst kind of frothing-at-the-mouth, rabid zealot. Your only saving grace is that you don't hide what you are.
Name a single detail about the assassination where you differ from the Warren Commission's narrative.
And by the way - when did Oswald make his preparations? He was down on the first floor talking to Eddie Piper while Bonnie Ray was up on the 6th from noon until a few minutes before the Presidential limo entered Dealey Plaza.
Maybe he was the man with the rifle Arnold Rowland saw on the 6th floor.
Try to think for yourself for a change.
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I was trying to offer to the LNs a possible rational alternative that explains Dougherty not seeing anything in Oswald’s hands when Oswald entered the back door of TSBD that morning to replace the standard LN “he just was not paying attention” argument. So I just letting you know I’m not attacking either you or John Corbett . I’m just trying to have a Socratic dialogue and that means questioning the status quo.
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