Why didn't Clint Hill hear the first shot?

[Jack Nessan]

You are lying. There were three spent shells found in the sniper's nest. There was a clear consensus among the witnesses that that were three shots. The witnesses who only remembered hearing two were those in one of the two limos that were straddled by four accelerating motorcycles. The three witnesses closest to the shooter, the employees on the fifth floor, all testified to hearing three shots. The fact there is a disagreement as to precisely that shot occurred is not an indication there was no such shot. It simply reflects the fact that the evidence for when that shot occurred is less than conclusive.

If there's no snow on the ground when you go to bed and when you wake up, there's snow on the ground, it is a logical conclusion that it snowed overnight. Would you have to know precisely when it snowed to reach that conclusion?

The three witnesses under the SN, that is just plain wrong. A large number of witnesses only heard two shots and saw JFK's reaction to just two shots. Three shells do not mean anything at all. Snow really?

So, your point is you lack any evidence of any kind?

You are stating Tom Graves is right? You think his dufus early missed shot scenario is the right one? OK, it doesn't really matter, both of you are way off the rails.

[John Corbett]

The three witnesses under the SN, that is just plain wrong. A large number of witnesses only heard two shots and saw JFK's reaction to just two shots. Three shells do not mean anything at all. Snow really?

Are you going to continue to lie and deny that the three TSBD employees one floor below Oswald testified that they heard three shots?
It varies depending on which survey you want to cite but in each case, the people who only remember two shots are a small minority of the DP witnesses.
I should have known better than to use a rhetorical analogy to make my point. It requires you to  think.

So, your point is you lack any evidence of any kind?

You get dumber with every post. I'm beginning to think you are nothing but a troll who gets his jollies just by disagreeing with people without every contributing anything of value to the discourse.

You are stating Tom Graves is right? You think his dufus early missed shot scenario is the right one? OK, it doesn't really matter, both of you are way off the rails.

Way off the rails is your territory. Your choo-choo jumped the tracks a long time ago and plowed through a cornfield.

I agree with Tom Graves regarding the early missed shot but disagree with him on precisely when that shot was fired. Our disagreement is over 1 1/4 seconds. Why is that hard for you to comprehend.

[Jack Nessan]

Dear Jack "Ignoramus" Nessan,

How do you know JFK didn't hear Oswald's first, missing-everything, "Z-124" shot, and that's why he quickly started turning his head to his left in Z-144, only to start turning it back to his right by Z-160 and start waving to Mary Wooward and her three colleagues in Z-175?

How do you know that Jackie didn't hear Oswald's first, missing-everything, "Z-124" shot, and that's why she started turning her head farther to her left in Z-144 and then far back to her right starting in Z-170?

How do you know that John Connally didn't hear Oswald's first, missing-everything, "Z-124" shot, and that's why he consciously and quickly turned his head to his left starting in Z-150 and then quickly turned it back far to his right, starting in Z-164, to try to catch a glimpse of JFK over his right shoulder from Z-175 through Z-190?

How do you know that Nellie Connally didn't hear Oswald's first, missing-everything, "Z-124" shot, and that's why she began a quick sweeping head
turn to her right in Z-145?

How do you know Roy Kellerman didn't hear Oswald's first, missing-everything, "Z-124" shot, and that's why he began leaning over and looking
behind/down to his right in Z-143?

How do you know Jack Ready didn't hear Oswald's first, missing-everything, "Z-124" shot, and that's why he started leaning to his right and turning his head around in Z-145?

How do you know Glen Bennett didn't hear Oswald's first, missing-everything, "Z-124" shot, and that's why he started leaning over to his far right to seee around Dave powers by Z-160?

How do you know George Hickey didn't hear Oswald's first, missing-everything, "Z-124" shot, and that's why he began leaning over and looking down in the direction of the rear tire or pavement in Z-144?

How do you know Rosemary Willis didn't hear Oswald's first, missing-everything, "Z-124" shot, and that's why she began a quick look away from
the Presidential limo and back towards the TSBD in Z-140?

-- Tom

In Tom Graves Land every time someone turns from one side to the other that equates to a missed shot? So, how many missed shots were there from the airport to Dealey Plaza? I would bet the KGB knows how many missed shots there were along the route.

Not to be the bearer of bad news but it was a motorcade parade with people on both sides of the street. The SS and members of the parade are supposed to turn from side to side. Maybe you did not know that.

Where are the quotes about an early missed shot to go along with your witness list. Not one of those people in the post stated there was an early missed shot. They had no problem identifying the two shots that were fired.

The nature of your post would indicate you think Corbett is completely wrong with his early missed shot scenario. Was there more than one missed shot on just Elm Street?

[Jack Nessan]

Are you going to continue to lie and deny that the three TSBD employees one floor below Oswald testified that they heard three shots?
It varies depending on which survey you want to cite but in each case, the people who only remember two shots are a small minority of the DP witnesses.
I should have known better than to use a rhetorical analogy to make my point. It requires you to  think. You get dumber with every post. I'm beginning to think you are nothing but a troll who gets his jollies just by disagreeing with people without every contributing anything of value to the discourse.
Way off the rails is your territory. Your choo-choo jumped the tracks a long time ago and plowed through a cornfield.

I agree with Tom Graves regarding the early missed shot but disagree with him on precisely when that shot was fired. Our disagreement is over 1 1/4 seconds. Why is that hard for you to comprehend.

 It is obvious why you shy away from reading the witness statements. You aren't able to comprehend them.

You only need the Zapruder film to conclude there was an early missed shot. Nothing else. How could there be two interpretations of it. Is Graves better at interpreting the film than you? Please tell me, I want to believe. The fictional world you are residing in is maybe better than the real world.

[John Corbett]

In Tom Graves Land every time someone turns from one side to the other that equates to a missed shot? So, how many missed shots were there from the airport to Dealey Plaza? I would bet the KGB knows how many missed shots there were along the route.

I'll leave it to Tom Graves to defend his scenario.

Not to be the bearer of bad news but it was a motorcade parade with people on both sides of the street. The SS and members of the parade are supposed to turn from side to side. Maybe you did not know that.

Thanks for that observation, Captain Obvious.

Where are the quotes about an early missed shot to go along with your witness list. Not one of those people in the post stated there was an early missed shot. They had no problem identifying the two shots that were fired.

You continue to deny that most of the earwitnesses heard 3 shots. There is no reason for them to identify one of them as an early shot. To them, there was a first, second, and third shot. 

The nature of your post would indicate you think Corbett is completely wrong with his early missed shot scenario. Was there more than one missed shot on just Elm Street?

You really show how bad you are at reasoning with statements like the above.

[John Corbett]

It is obvious why you shy away from reading the witness statements. You aren't able to comprehend them.

I doubt you could spell "cat" if we spotted you the "C" and the "A".

You only need the Zapruder film to conclude there was an early missed shot. Nothing else. How could there be two interpretations of it. Is Graves better at interpreting the film than you? Please tell me, I want to believe. The fictional world you are residing in is maybe better than the real world.
[/quote]

Whatever few doubts I've had about you being an obnoxious troll just vanished. You aren't here to argue points. You are here just to be a pain in the Bahookie. That is one skill you have which is undeniable. You tell me I can't comprehend witness statements. Here are the sworn statements from the three TSBD employees who were right below Oswald when he fired the shots.

From Harold Norman. First from his affidavit.
"Just after the President passed by, I heard a shot and several seconds later I heard two more shots. I knew that the shots had come from directly above me, and I could hear the expended cartridges fall to the floor. I also could here the bolt action of the rifle. I saw some dust fall from the ceiling of the fifth floor and I felt sure that whoever had fired the shots was directly above me."

From his WC testimony:
"Mr. BALL. How many shots did you hear?
Mr. NORMAN. Three."

I guess his answer was too complex for you to understand.

From Junior Jarman's WC testimony:
"Mr. BALL. After the motorcade passed, what happened?
Mr. JARMAN. After the motorcade turned, going I don’t believe you have looking at the photo- west on Elm, then there was a loud shot, or backfire, as I thought backfire.
Mr. BALL. You thought it was what?
Mr. JARMAN. A backfire or an officer giving a salute to the President. And then at that time I didn’t, you know, think too much about it. And then the second shot was fired, and that is when the people started falling on the ground and the motorcade car jumped forward, and then the third shot was fired right behind the second one. "

So tell us. How many shots did Junior Jarman just describe?

Lastly, Bonnie Ray Williams WC testimony:
"Mr. BALL. Now tell us what happened after the President's car had passed your window.
Mr. WILLIAMS. After the Presidents car had passed my window, the last thing I remember seeing him do was, you know--it seemed to me he had a habit of pushing his hair back. The last thing I saw him do was he pushed his hand up like this. I assumed he was brushing his hair back. And then the thing that happened then was a loud shot--first I thought they were saluting the President, somebody even maybe a motorcycle backfire. The first shot--there was two shots rather close together. The second and the third shot was closer together than the first shot and the second shot, as I remember."

How many shots did Williams describe?

I have just cited the three witnesses who were closest to the shots and were less affected by the noise from the motorcade than anybody on the ground. All said three shots. It has occurred to me that I have never seen you quote a single witness. You just lie about what people have said. That convinces me you are here for one purpose only. To troll.

Go away, troll.

[Jack Nessan]

I doubt you could spell "cat" if we spotted you the "C" and the "A".

You only need the Zapruder film to conclude there was an early missed shot. Nothing else. How could there be two interpretations of it. Is Graves better at interpreting the film than you? Please tell me, I want to believe. The fictional world you are residing in is maybe better than the real world.


Whatever few doubts I've had about you being an obnoxious troll just vanished. You aren't here to argue points. You are here just to be a pain in the Bahookie. That is one skill you have which is undeniable. You tell me I can't comprehend witness statements. Here are the sworn statements from the three TSBD employees who were right below Oswald when he fired the shots.

From Harold Norman. First from his affidavit.
"Just after the President passed by, I heard a shot and several seconds later I heard two more shots. I knew that the shots had come from directly above me, and I could hear the expended cartridges fall to the floor. I also could here the bolt action of the rifle. I saw some dust fall from the ceiling of the fifth floor and I felt sure that whoever had fired the shots was directly above me."

From his WC testimony:
"Mr. BALL. How many shots did you hear?
Mr. NORMAN. Three."

I guess his answer was too complex for you to understand.

From Junior Jarman's WC testimony:
"Mr. BALL. After the motorcade passed, what happened?
Mr. JARMAN. After the motorcade turned, going I don’t believe you have looking at the photo- west on Elm, then there was a loud shot, or backfire, as I thought backfire.
Mr. BALL. You thought it was what?
Mr. JARMAN. A backfire or an officer giving a salute to the President. And then at that time I didn’t, you know, think too much about it. And then the second shot was fired, and that is when the people started falling on the ground and the motorcade car jumped forward, and then the third shot was fired right behind the second one. "

So tell us. How many shots did Junior Jarman just describe?

Lastly, Bonnie Ray Williams WC testimony:
"Mr. BALL. Now tell us what happened after the President's car had passed your window.
Mr. WILLIAMS. After the Presidents car had passed my window, the last thing I remember seeing him do was, you know--it seemed to me he had a habit of pushing his hair back. The last thing I saw him do was he pushed his hand up like this. I assumed he was brushing his hair back. And then the thing that happened then was a loud shot--first I thought they were saluting the President, somebody even maybe a motorcycle backfire. The first shot--there was two shots rather close together. The second and the third shot was closer together than the first shot and the second shot, as I remember."

How many shots did Williams describe?

I have just cited the three witnesses who were closest to the shots and were less affected by the noise from the motorcade than anybody on the ground. All said three shots. It has occurred to me that I have never seen you quote a single witness. You just lie about what people have said. That convinces me you are here for one purpose only. To troll.

Go away, troll.

I doubt you could spell "cat" if we spotted you the "C" and the "A".

Nice, you are now quoting Dallas Cowboy Linebacker Hollywood Henderson.

----------------------------

You made this big proclamation about these three witnesses being insulated from all the noise and in the end, you could not have found three worse witnesses to support your fantasy theory. Not one of them even remotely hints at an early missed shot. Is this why you shy away from witness statements. The embarrassment of not being able to comprehend what they state.

Do you read their statements at all or even possess the most basic understanding of the assassination.

Harold Norman stated JFK slumped after the first shot. How is that in keeping with an early missed shot.

Mr. NORMAN. "I believe it was his right arm, and I can't remember what the exact time was but I know I heard a shot, and then after I heard the shot, well, it seems as though the President, you know, slumped or something,"

James Jarman states the third shot took place after the car accelerates. If you are capable of doing the math, where is there an early missed shot in his statement. Here I will repeat your post for you, maybe this time you will actually read it instead of looking for the words three shots.

Mr. JARMAN. A backfire or an officer giving a salute to the President. And then at that time I didn’t, you know, think too much about it. And then the second shot was fired, and that is when the people started falling on the ground and the motorcade car jumped forward---Here I will help, he was describing the headshot.


Bonnie Ray Williams stated in both his 11/22 Sheriffs Affidavit and his 11/23 FBI Affidavit that there were only two shots. There it is again from an eyewitness, two shots once again being stated by an eyewitness. Maybe believe him.