JFK Hands Never Go To-Or Toward-His Throat

[Royell Storing]

I have no idea how people got the impression that JFK was clutching at his throat:

   The "clutching of the throat" originated way back. Back when versions of the Z Film in the public domain were very low definition. As time passes and the Image Evidence becomes clearer, issues such as Steve Barber is raising become relevant. That said, I do believe there have always been those with high definition images. They revel in seeing serious JFK Assassination Researchers chasing their tails. This includes the Fake Newser's that continue to sit on their original copies of the Assassination Films. Wiegman Film, Darnell Film, etc.

[Lance Payette]

Ye gods, am I ever bored. The winds are 60 mph and I'm trapped inside. I did find this 2021 thread from the McAdams forum in which several of this forum's participants - including John C, Steve G, and Mark U weighed in (along with wacky Gil Jesus, who steered us to a YouTube video proving - PROVING, I tell you! - that JFK was attempting to cough up a recalcitrant meatball bullet): https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/mIy5MUtYgYg.

Mark made the same point I do here (yay, Mark!): what we see with JFK is indeed a neuromuscular reaction but NOT the Thorburn reaction. Indeed, one of the criticisms of Lattimer's claim in the article I linked was precisely that the reaction observed by Thorburn was nothing like instantaneous but was fully developed only days later. Mark quoted from John McAdams' Assassination Logic (yay, John!) as follows:

"Lattimer was responsible for another bit of pseudoscience related to the case. In the wake of the bullet strike to his torso, Kennedy’s arms move sharply upward, toward his throat. He doesn’t actually grasp at his throat, and his fists are balled up in what looks like an involuntary reaction. Lattimer found a 'golden oldie' (from 1889) of an article in a medical journal and decided that Kennedy had assumed 'Thorburn’s position' — something documented as happening in the wake of trauma to the spine. Kennedy’s arm movements were indeed a neuromuscular reaction, but not the one Thorburn described, since Torburn’s position develops over days or weeks or even months. (130)

(130) Lattimer, Kennedy and Lincoln, chapter 11; Bob Artwohl, post on Compuserve forum, April 6, 1994, http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/thorburn.txt."

The link to Dr. Artwohl's post no longer works, but Mark steered folks to this letter from Dr. Strully, a NH neurosurgeon, to Dr. Artwohl: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/strully.txt.

What should profoundly amaze you is that Dr. Payette, having no idea what he was even talking about, nonetheless correctly diagnosed what is going on here - i.e., the bizarre movement of JFK's arms is indeed a neuromuscular reaction, just not a Thorburn reaction. The Thorburn thing is a red herring clutching at its gills with its little flippers (or fins or whatever red herrings have).

I am not surprised that anyone might think JFK was clutching at his throat because (1) he did have a throat wound and (2) that's kind of what it looks like.

[John Corbett]

I don't think Lattimer was the first to theorize the Thorburn position. I can't remember when I first read it but it's been a long time. I don't think it matters at all whether it was Thorburn or not which is why I don't have a strong opinion about it one way or the other. The shot to the head essentially ended function of his brain and central nervous system. He was technically alive for about another 20 minutes but I doubt he ever had another conscious thought.

Interesting about Bob Artwohl being on Compuserve in 1994. He was a regular on our old Prodigy board in the early 1990s, as was MTG and myself. He started out on the CT team but switched jerseys. He's the only one that I know of who did that. Our Prodigy group broke up when they changed their fee structure to charge for posts beyond a certain number which wasn't very generous. Apparently Bob found a new home at Compuserve. I ended up going to AOL. By the time I joined the McAdams forum in 2008, he was done posting there. I found some of his older posts on the archive but never saw a new post from him.

[Andrew Mason]

At page 116 of this thread, Dan O'Meara has an extended discussion as to why JFK's rapid and bizarre arm movements must be attributed to a reflex action from a shot at Z223-224 (yay, Dan!). Andrew Mason points out that we cannot see JFK between Z207-224 and that there is evidence of a beginning of a reaction with hand movements before Z207 (yay, Andrew!). Assuming that what we see is indeed a neurological reflex reaction, it would be interesting to see a qualified medical discussion as to how such a reaction might evolve - i.e., must it be instantaneous (or virtually so) or might it progress from what we see before Z207 to what we see at Z225?

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2723.805.html

As far as the reaction to the wound is concerned, the notion that it caused a neurological response is not supported by any medical evidence.  Lattimer, who was two letters (ne) short of being a neurologist, suggested he was immediately assuming a position that a patient of Dr. Thorburn was observed to assume a few days after his spinal cord was severed. Given that the hole in his throat would have interfered with his ability breathe normally, JFK’s sudden reaction at z226 could be his reaction to taking his first breath after being wounded.

There is a significant change in JFK after z193:



The change may begin before z193 if the change in right hand is part of the reaction:



Several witnesses put the first shot when JFK was between the lamp post and the Thornton sign (z190-z200).

[Lance Payette]

I don't think it matters at all whether it was Thorburn or not which is why I don't have a strong opinion about it one way or the other.

No, but what would matter would be if (1) JFK were gagging on a bullet in his mouth or (2) his reactions were to a shot from the front or otherwise indicative of a non-SBT scenario. Both have been argued. I think it's pretty clear this isn't a Thorburn reaction but is an involuntary neuromuscular reaction.

[Lance Payette]

There is a significant change in JFK after z193:



The change may begin before z193 if the change in right hand is part of the reaction:



Several witnesses put the first shot when JFK was between the lamp post and the Thornton sign (z190-z200).

Yes, I have been emphasizing that John Orr's Mafia-did-it scenario has the shot at around Z200 and that the women in the Gloria Calvery group all said JFK was right in front of them (or "almost directly in front" of them, which according to Dan O'Meara is such a massive difference that I am a complete dolt for failing to grasp the cosmic significance  ).

[John Corbett]

No, but what would matter would be if (1) JFK were gagging on a bullet in his mouth or (2) his reactions were to a shot from the front or otherwise indicative of a non-SBT scenario. Both have been argued. I think it's pretty clear this isn't a Thorburn reaction but is an involuntary neuromuscular reaction.

Why would anyone contemplate either of these silly explanations?

Thousands of things have been argued. The assassination only happened one way. It's not very hard to figure out either. The only mystery is why so many people have such a hard time with it.