When Was JFK Hit?

[John Corbett]

Your hero and mine, John Orr, has the first shot at Z204 and JFK's first reactions at Z205.

I would say John Orr has either a very active imagination or very poor eyesight.

He notes that the HSCA photographic panel agreed JFK was reacting to a "severe external stimulus" by Z207.

I'd love to know what they see that tells them that. I see JFK calmly lowering his right hand after having been waving to the few remainin spectators on Elm St.

This would dovetail nicely with the recollections of the women along Elm just to the east of the Stemmons sign, who all said the first shot occurred when JFK was "right in front" of them. It doesn't seem to me to be too much of a stretch to give credence to women who were standing mere feet from JFK and who said the first shot occurred when he was "right in front" of them. The fallibility of eyewitness testimony doesn't require us to think these women were actually all drunk and staring at their iPhones.

Oh, brother. Another so-and-so said argument. It is completely at odds with what I see in the Z-film. I see JFK acting very calmly lowering his right hand while turned toward the spectators. I'm not going to bother looking it up but I seem to remember somebody on this forum saying those women indicated JFK smiled at them. That doesn't seem to dovetail with a "severe external stimulus".

[Lance Payette]

I would say John Orr has either a very active imagination or very poor eyesight.
I'd love to know what they see that tells them that. I see JFK calmly lowering his right hand after having been waving to the few remainin spectators on Elm St.
Oh, brother. Another so-and-so said argument. It is completely at odds with what I see in the Z-film. I see JFK acting very calmly lowering his right hand while turned toward the spectators. I'm not going to bother looking it up but I seem to remember somebody on this forum saying those women indicated JFK smiled at them. That doesn't seem to dovetail with a "severe external stimulus".

HSCA report: "The panel noted that at approximately Zapruder frame 200 the President's movements suddenly freeze, as his right hand seemed to stop abruptly in the midst of a waving motion. Then during frames 200-202, his head moves rapidly from right to left. The sudden interruption of the president's hand-waving motion, coupled with his rapid head movements, was considered by the photographic panel as evidence of President Kennedy's reaction to some 'severe external stimulus.'"

HSCA photographic panel: "By a vote of 12 to 5, the Panel determined that President Kennedy first showed a reaction to some severe external stimulus by Zapruder frame 207, as he is seen going behind a sign that obstructed Zapruder's view. ... At approximately Zapruder frame 200 , Kennedy's movements suddenly freeze; his right hand abruptly stops in the midst of a waving motion and his head moves rapidly from right to his left in the direction of his wife. Based on these movements, it appears that by the time the President goes behind the sign at frame 207 he is evidencing some kind of reaction to a severe external stimulus."

I have no more than a neutered pug in the fight, but on one side we have (1) the HSCA photographic panel, folks like Orr and any number of others who have studied the matter intensively, and the lying eyes of women who were standing right smack there at the time, versus (2) what John thinks he sees in the Z film. Ho-kay ... Maybe the severe external stimulus was Jackie's cheap French perfume.

[John Corbett]

HSCA report: "The panel noted that at approximately Zapruder frame 200 the President's movements suddenly freeze, as his right hand seemed to stop abruptly in the midst of a waving motion. Then during frames 200-202, his head moves rapidly from right to left. The sudden interruption of the president's hand-waving motion, coupled with his rapid head movements, was considered by the photographic panel as evidence of President Kennedy's reaction to some 'severe external stimulus.'"

HSCA photographic panel: "By a vote of 12 to 5, the Panel determined that President Kennedy first showed a reaction to some severe external stimulus by Zapruder frame 207, as he is seen going behind a sign that obstructed Zapruder's view. ... At approximately Zapruder frame 200 , Kennedy's movements suddenly freeze; his right hand abruptly stops in the midst of a waving motion and his head moves rapidly from right to his left in the direction of his wife. Based on these movements, it appears that by the time the President goes behind the sign at frame 207 he is evidencing some kind of reaction to a severe external stimulus."

I have no more than a neutered pug in the fight, but on one side we have (1) the HSCA photographic panel, folks like Orr and any number of others who have studied the matter intensively, and the lying eyes of women who were standing right smack there at the time, versus (2) what John thinks he sees in the Z film. Ho-kay ... Maybe the severe external stimulus was Jackie's cheap French perfume.

I wonder if this illustrious panel considered that the reason JFK stopped waving could be that the crowd on the north side of Elm St. was starting to thin out.. I also wonder what the qualifications were to be on this panel. The fact that the vote was 12 to 5 indicates that this analysis was not exactly a science. More of a in-the-eye-of-the-beholder exercise. The low resolution of the film also makes such interpretations quite dubious.