Education Forum Goes Off the Rails

[Mark Ulrik]

I’d be surprised if the forum doesn’t re‑emerge within a few days, given that Andrew Iler has reported locating Gordon (with help from a professional people‑tracking service) and that Gordon has indicated he’s willing to help.

[Benjamin Cole]

Heavens to Murgatroy!

Maybe the EF-JFKA will rise again, not quite like a phoenix...more like the way bodies do, a few days after drowning?

[Lance Payette]

Maybe the EF-JFKA will rise again, not quite like a phoenix...more like the way bodies do, a few days after drowning?

I.e., bloated by gas-producing bacteria that feed on internal tissues? Yes, that sounds about right. Let's take this a step further and identify some of the gas-producing bacteria by name, shall we?

Actually, I've hardly ever enjoyed a soap opera more than the last month or so of "Days of Our Ed Forum Lives" ("Like sands through the hourglass, so are the days of our Ed Forum lives.")

(Yet another Soviet anecdote: I was too old to watch "Santa Barbara," which aired from 1984 to 1993, but my wife tells me it was wildly popular in the USSR. So popular that even today, if a situation becomes ridiculously messy and complex, everyone knows what you mean if you roll your eyes and say "Oh, my god, Santa Barbara." Within three minutes of entering Minsk in 2007, I was surprised to see a huge billboard advertising "House MD" with Hugh Laurie. Another hoot was watching old episodes of "Bewitched" in Russian.)

[Kevin Balch]

OK, but it is being used precisely like racism because of the underlying myth of the Jews as "Christ killers." Otherwise, the visceral hatred of the Jews is inexplicable. People don't just adopt antisemitic attitudes out of thin air. There is no comparable racist-like hatred of Egyptians or other cultures because they weren't "Christ killers." As I stated, that myth has now snowballed where people who care little or nothing about Jesus are antisemitic and really can't tell you why. (As an historical document, the Bible is not a fairy tale; it holds up well insofar as it describes the history of the periods in which it was written.)

The “antisemitism” preceded the Christ killing fairy tale. And it also happens in non-Christian countries which are now banning Israeli tourists for reasons nothing to do with the death of Christ. Thailand has had major problems with them. How the hell do you piss off Buddhists? Yet they managed to do so.

Until the 20th century, Muslims had far better relations with Jews than Christians. Jews often welcomed and assisted the Muslims during the Arab conquests and had no problems serving in the imposed caliphates.

Like the racism card, the antisemitism card has been used so often that its effectiveness is disappearing.

[Lance Payette]

The “antisemitism” preceded the Christ killing fairy tale. And it also happens in non-Christian countries which are now banning Israeli tourists for reasons nothing to do with the death of Christ. Thailand has had major problems with them. How the hell do you piss off Buddhists? Yet they managed to do so.

Like the racism card, the antisemitism card has been used so often that its effectiveness is disappearing.

I'm not following your logic. If "they" pissed off the Buddhists of Thailand, doesn't this suggest you think there is something about "them" that pisses people off? This would be different from what I view as antisemitism, which is hatred of Jews simply because they are Jews. I believe Ben lives in Thailand, so maybe he can weigh in. From my reading, there really was nothing we would call antisemitism much before the "Jesus thing." Jews were always outsiders because they insisted on maintaining their culture and religion instead of blending in. I suppose this could be called antisemitism of a sort, but the hatred of the Jews simply because they are Jews seems mostly to flow from Christian mythology. French philosopher René Girard, who is the leading authority on scapegoating, has written extensively on how the Jewish people are the prototypical historical example of scapegoating and that this flows entirely from the "Christ killer" myth.

[Kevin Balch]

I'm not following your logic. If "they" pissed off the Buddhists of Thailand, doesn't this suggest you think there is something about "them" that pisses people off? This would be different from what I view as antisemitism, which is hatred of Jews simply because they are Jews. I believe Ben lives in Thailand, so maybe he can weigh in. From my reading, there really was nothing we would call antisemitism much before the "Jesus thing." Jews were always outsiders because they insisted on maintaining their culture and religion instead of blending in. I suppose this could be called antisemitism of a sort, but the hatred of the Jews simply because they are Jews seems mostly to flow from Christian mythology. French philosopher René Girard, who is the leading authority on scapegoating, has written extensively on how the Jewish people are the prototypical historical example of scapegoating and that this flows entirely from the "Christ killer" myth.

It’s not “my interpretation” it’s just a reasonable interpretation of what has actually happened. And not just in Thailand. Cicero, for one had criticized their behavior.

[Greg Doudna]

It’s not “my interpretation” it’s just a reasonable interpretation of what has actually happened. And not just in Thailand. Cicero, for one had criticized their behavior.

Kevin, would you consider southern whites' descriptions of dislike of blacks of former generations as weight toward perfidy of blacks? Where I live Chinese workers were brutally driven out of town en masse a century ago. The Chinese laborers were driven out because they were disliked, even though they had done nothing to deserve it. Is the fact that ethnic groups are disliked evidence that they deserve it? Of course not. That seems to be your logic with the Thailand and Cicero examples? Isn't that blame-the-victim logic?

Essentializing ethnicities or major world religions or races in demonizing ways is so deeply-rooted and wrong. As Ashley Montagu said in the title of his book debunking 19th century scientific racism: race was "man's most dangerous myth". Essentializing and demonizing ethnicities or religions, variant of the same thing. 

What did blacks do to whites to deserve Klan treatment? Nothing. What did Jews do to European nations to deserve thousand of years of anti-Jewish pogroms? Nothing. What did those Chinese families put on trains and driven out of town by people cursing them and threatening death if they did not get on the train, do to deserve that? Nothing. What did Jews do to the Romans anciently to deserve Cicero's condemnation? Refused to knuckle under and be good Roman citizens is what it came down to.

Of course there are always things claimed, traits and essentialisms, that are wrong with the other. There are always anecdotes, anecdotes which collect grievances. Once such beliefs are there about whole classes of others, no logic, no reason, nothing on earth can dislodge it, until it comes from inside, awareness that, speaking metaphorically, we are all God's children, every human being on earth.