"Overthinking" (or maybe not?) the Walker attempt

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Michael T. Griffith

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Online Charles Collins

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Re: "Overthinking" (or maybe not?) the Walker attempt
« Reply #49 on: Today at 10:36:31 AM »
I'm glad you have acknowledged your error. I've made plenty of my own over the years. What I don't buy is your limiting the miss to just 3 feet. With all that was working against Oswald on that first shot. He would have been in a very awkward shooting position to fire that steep a downward shot. He would have been firing through a window about a foot from the floor and was only open about another foot, the boxes would not have been much help steadying the rifle, and his target was close to passing under the tree which could have caused him to rush the shot. A wild miss is not out of the question for that shot.


I agree with what you said above. What I disagree with is your contention that LHO would have intentionally taken a shot under those very poor conditions. He had apparently set up the sniper’s nest for some very comfortable and stable shots while the limo was in the kill zone just past the tree. Why do you believe LHO would take an intentional early shot that was so very difficult so that missing by greater than 3’ at a distance of only ~105’ was likely?

We will never know these things with any certainty, but when I consider the difficulty of an early shot and that the window box and the vertical pipe near the window were both potential interference factors for a shot at that point in time, it seems to me that the shot was most likely an accidental discharge. Accidental discharges can happen to anyone and can happen at the most in opportune times. We once obtained a hole in our dining room table and chair and floor from an accidental discharge by a federally licensed gunsmith that was also a gun safety instructor. He had been told it was loaded but unintentionally had his finger on the trigger while examining the pistol. He knew better than to have his finger on the trigger, but it happened anyway.

I believe that LHO would have, at that point in time, been in the process of raising the rifle out of his lap and into a shooting position and beginning to track the moving target while anticipating shooting just after the limo cleared the tree and entered the kill zone. If LHO had his finger on the trigger and an unexpected bump into the window box or his left elbow into the pipe, then an accidental discharge could very well have been the result. My opinion is that this is the more likely scenario.


Online John Corbett

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Re: "Overthinking" (or maybe not?) the Walker attempt
« Reply #50 on: Today at 12:34:51 PM »

I agree with what you said above. What I disagree with is your contention that LHO would have intentionally taken a shot under those very poor conditions. He had apparently set up the sniper’s nest for some very comfortable and stable shots while the limo was in the kill zone just past the tree. Why do you believe LHO would take an intentional early shot that was so very difficult so that missing by greater than 3’ at a distance of only ~105’ was likely?

We will never know these things with any certainty, but when I consider the difficulty of an early shot and that the window box and the vertical pipe near the window were both potential interference factors for a shot at that point in time, it seems to me that the shot was most likely an accidental discharge. Accidental discharges can happen to anyone and can happen at the most in opportune times. We once obtained a hole in our dining room table and chair and floor from an accidental discharge by a federally licensed gunsmith that was also a gun safety instructor. He had been told it was loaded but unintentionally had his finger on the trigger while examining the pistol. He knew better than to have his finger on the trigger, but it happened anyway.

I believe that LHO would have, at that point in time, been in the process of raising the rifle out of his lap and into a shooting position and beginning to track the moving target while anticipating shooting just after the limo cleared the tree and entered the kill zone. If LHO had his finger on the trigger and an unexpected bump into the window box or his left elbow into the pipe, then an accidental discharge could very well have been the result. My opinion is that this is the more likely scenario.

In hindsight, it's easy for us to second guess Oswald taking that first shot under such difficult circumstances, but I've consistently said over the years, we can't know what was going through Oswald's mind at any point during the event. Oswald had four rounds in his rifle and a limited amount time to fire them. It's understandable why he might try to get in a shot before JFK went under the tree, even if it was a low percentage shot. He had zero chance of scoring a hit if he didn't take that shot. As Wayne Gretzky once famously said, "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.". Hockey players try to put as many shots on goal as they can, even though they are low percentage shots. For every hockey game the shots on goal vastly outnumber the goals scored. A low percentage shot has a better chance than no shot at all. 

Online Charles Collins

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Re: "Overthinking" (or maybe not?) the Walker attempt
« Reply #51 on: Today at 01:24:22 PM »
In hindsight, it's easy for us to second guess Oswald taking that first shot under such difficult circumstances, but I've consistently said over the years, we can't know what was going through Oswald's mind at any point during the event. Oswald had four rounds in his rifle and a limited amount time to fire them. It's understandable why he might try to get in a shot before JFK went under the tree, even if it was a low percentage shot. He had zero chance of scoring a hit if he didn't take that shot. As Wayne Gretzky once famously said, "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.". Hockey players try to put as many shots on goal as they can, even though they are low percentage shots. For every hockey game the shots on goal vastly outnumber the goals scored. A low percentage shot has a better chance than no shot at all.


Earlier you indicated you have a 30.06 rifle. So, I would guess that you might be a deer hunter. Let’s try an analogy with a deer hunter up high in a tree stand that has prepared provisions for a comfortable and stable seated and supported shot into a clearing. A deer comes along and is moving towards the clearing right below the hunter. The deer hunter knows for certain that that deer will emerge very soon into that clearing and present itself such that the hunter has a perfect comfortable and supported shot into the deer’s vital organs zone. Why the heck would the deer hunter decide to stand up and shoot at the deer before it gets to the clearing. How many deer hunters do you know that would take a very low percentage early shot under those conditions?
« Last Edit: Today at 01:25:37 PM by Charles Collins »

Offline Lance Payette

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Re: "Overthinking" (or maybe not?) the Walker attempt
« Reply #52 on: Today at 01:25:42 PM »
Jack Nessan really should pay me a royalty on every copy of Phantom Shot he sells, but I cannot help but be struck by the fact that Oswald manages to put two pretty precisely-placed bullets into JFK after supposedly having gone through all sorts of hypothetical gyrations and managing to miss the entire limousine - and no one can agree on exactly when he did that. Two shots seems to me to be favored by Occam's (or Ockham's) Razor, and Mrs. Occam agrees. I don't quite understand the near-desperation to preserve the three-shot scenario. There doesn't seem to be any reason the evidence demands this.

It seems to me that the best evidence, including the Gloria Calvery group, places the first shot just about where the three-shot narrative places the second shot. If the three-shot scenario were correct, it seems to me the second and third shots would be the bang-bang sequence that Bowers and others described. Is this perhaps the real motivation for insisting on an early missed shot?
« Last Edit: Today at 02:20:17 PM by Lance Payette »

Online Michael T. Griffith

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Re: "Overthinking" (or maybe not?) the Walker attempt
« Reply #53 on: Today at 03:59:49 PM »
For a good summary of some of the problems with the case against Oswald in the Walker shooting, I recommend C.A.A. Savastano's article "The Walker Allegations":

https://www.tpaak.com/walker-allegations

The bullet that was fired at Walker was recovered. Walker said the bullet was mangled, but he also made it clear the bullet was not a WCC Carcano FMJ bullet. He was adamant on this point:

During the HSCA investigation in the 1970’s, General Walker himself said that the bullet in evidence was not the same bullet that was found in his house on 10th April 1963. He wrote to the Attorney General in February 1979 and said that it was “a ridiculous substitute.” He went on to state that “I saw the hunk of lead, picked up by a policeman in my house, and I took it from him and I inspected it carefully. There is no mistake. There has been a substitution for the bullet fired by Oswald and taken out of my house.”
(https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/oswald-and-the-shot-at-walker-redressing-the-balance)


As for Greg Doudna's upcoming book on the Walker shooting, I have great respect for Greg and agree with many of his conclusions about the shooting. You can find Greg's summary of his findings here:

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/31469-my-forthcoming-book-on-the-walker-shot/

Of course, WC defenders don't bat an eye when they claim that the same guy who went 2/3 or 2/2 in 5.6 seconds when supposedly shooting JFK somehow completely missed Walker from much closer range and with plenty of time to take aim.

« Last Edit: Today at 04:04:31 PM by Michael T. Griffith »