Why did Oswald go get his revolver?

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Online John Corbett

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Re: Why did Oswald go get his revolver?
« Reply #35 on: Yesterday at 04:16:58 PM »
Where I believe these little thought exercises are useful is not that we're going to figure out exactly what Oswald was thinking but that they do tend to eliminate some possibilities.

One of the more popular theories is that Oswald was heading to a rendezvous - at Jack Ruby's, at a safe house in Oak Cliff, at the Texas Theater, at the Redbird Airport. To me, it is inconceivable that "a pit stop at Beckley to grab his revolver" would have been part of any such plan. It simply makes no sense. Those who favor rendezvous theories are stuck with this scenario, but it simply makes no sense.

He realized he was a patsy and went home to get his gun for protection: OK. Far-fetched for a host of reasons, but at least not irrational.

He was astounded to find himself outside the TSBD, had no plan at all, his mind was racing, and he went home to get his revolver because it might come in handy for whatever the hell might happen next: Yes, fits pretty well, it seems to me.

The first two paragraphs imply he had accomplices for which the is zero credible evidence. The third paragraph makes perfect sense. It involves no one else.

Online Louis Earl

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Re: Why did Oswald go get his revolver?
« Reply #36 on: Today at 12:49:18 AM »
He realized he had been framed.  He feared that his life was in danger.

Offline Lance Payette

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Re: Why did Oswald go get his revolver?
« Reply #37 on: Today at 01:13:09 AM »
He realized he had been framed.  He feared that his life was in danger.

Easy to say, but start thinking about exactly HOW he was framed and how he KNEW he'd been framed and things start to get very complicated very fast. Why would he go home and get his revolver, as opposed to running to law enforcement for protection - he didn't think he could trust anyone in authority? He seriously thought his .38 would be protection against conspirators capable of killing a President? Once in custody, why wasn't he completely cooperative? It's really hard to articulate a scenario where "he hurried home and got his revolver, shot Tippit, resisted arrest in the theater, and remained completely uncooperative after his arrest" because "he realized he'd been framed."

Online John Corbett

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Re: Why did Oswald go get his revolver?
« Reply #38 on: Today at 04:29:08 AM »
He realized he had been framed.  He feared that his life was in danger.

If Oswald had been in the 2nd floor lunchroom at the time of the shooting as most deniers of his guilt seem to believe, why would he think he had been framed. He wouldn't even have known JFK had been shot until Mrs. Reid told him shots had been fired but she wasn't even sure he had been hit. He had been confronted by a cop with his gun drawn but wasn't detained after Truly vouched for him. If Oswald had been innocently eating his lunch when the shots were fired, what reason would he have to believe he was being framed for the shooting? Do CTs ever bother to think things through before they dream up these wild ideas?

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Why did Oswald go get his revolver?
« Reply #39 on: Today at 09:30:32 AM »
If Oswald had been in the 2nd floor lunchroom at the time of the shooting as most deniers of his guilt seem to believe, why would he think he had been framed. He wouldn't even have known JFK had been shot until Mrs. Reid told him shots had been fired but she wasn't even sure he had been hit. He had been confronted by a cop with his gun drawn but wasn't detained after Truly vouched for him. If Oswald had been innocently eating his lunch when the shots were fired, what reason would he have to believe he was being framed for the shooting? Do CTs ever bother to think things through before they dream up these wild ideas?

It's a question that can not be answered since we don't know the details of what Oswald had been doing in the days, weeks or even months prior to the assassination. Who did he meet? Did he do somebody a favor? Oswald is and always will be a mystery, regardless of the opinion of some LNs who seem to believe that they know every detail about the man and the case.

I have never heard anybody claim that Oswald could or would instantly understand that he had been framed (if that's what happened) while in the lunchroom. At least not until Baker pointed a gun at him. After that, he may well have been able to put two and two (whatever those two's are) together, without actually knowing all the details.

A similar question that can not be answered is, if he was the shooter, why did Oswald even go into the 2nd floor lunchroom, after allegedly coming down the stairs, when he could have go through the hallway and directly to the front door of the building?
« Last Edit: Today at 10:03:42 AM by Martin Weidmann »

Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Why did Oswald go get his revolver?
« Reply #40 on: Today at 12:32:57 PM »
Oswald gets to the 2nd floor after 48 sec.  He stops.  What to do next?
Should he continue down to the first floor?
Should he go to the first floor via the front stairs?
Should he lay low in the lunch room?
His jacket is in the Domino Room.
Uh Oh -- He hears Adams & Styles klomping down the stairs in a real hurry on a mission.
Best to visit the coke machine & hope that whoever it is goes clean past.
They pass. He comes back out. What to do next?
He can't decide.  He will be less conspicuous if he takes the front stairs, but he would then have to walk back into & throo the storage area to get his jacket in the Domino Room.
He decides to continue down the back stairs.
He makes a start but then Truly hollers up the elevator shaft, so he goes back up.
Then he hears Baker & Truly galloping up the stairs, & he retreats to the coke machine a second time.
He walks slow & cool.
He would have been better off diving into the lunchroom in a hurry, & laying low, he knows there is no-one in there, but he knows that if seen rushing (by Truly & Co) it will be a sure sign that he is guilty of something.
He nearly makes it, another couple of slow steps & he will be out of sight.
But damn, Baker spots a bit of him throo the glass of the door & says to come back.
Truly says that Oswald works here, & Baker & Truly gallop off.
They get to the 5th floor & take the east elevator to the 7th floor.
Oswald gets a coke to look less guilty & more cool if confronted again.  And assassinations go better with coke.
The back stairs are now dangerous.  He heads for the front stairs, either forgetting about his jacket or deciding that his jacket is a dead duck.
But just in case more dumb cops are entering along the corridor he goes via the office.
Damn, he meets Jeraldean Reid as she returns to her desk.  Mrs Hine is also in the office but she doesn't notice Oswald, or forgets.
Reid in 3 re-enactments took exactly 120 sec to get to her desk, which is about right (ie to meet Oswald).
She says something as they pass & he mumbles something back.  Its not a good look.  He has no business in the office, unless wanting change for the coke machine. Its not even a short cut to the stairs. Damn.  Anyhow no big deal.
He goes down the front stairs & mixes with the growing throng in the lobby near the front door without raising any suspicion.
Someone asks him about a phone.
Ok, things aint so bad, praps he can take a chance & get his jacket from the Domino Room anyhow.
Hmmm – he can get his jacket by going out the front door & down the steps & around & entering via the Houston dock (like he does each morning), & walking 16 paces to the jacket.
Getting caught walking in shouldn’t result in getting bitten by a cop.
So, off he goes, but he gets a little ways up Houston & he sees Officer Barnett on sentry duty at the dock, & Barnett looks vicious.
So, a quick U-turn & back down Houston.  Buell Frazier sees him walking south along Houston.
No, the jacket is a dead duck.  He decides to get out of there asap, he crosses Houston & then crosses Elm.
Tippit is waiting.

Offline Lance Payette

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Re: Why did Oswald go get his revolver?
« Reply #41 on: Today at 12:57:36 PM »
If Oswald had been in the 2nd floor lunchroom at the time of the shooting as most deniers of his guilt seem to believe, why would he think he had been framed. He wouldn't even have known JFK had been shot until Mrs. Reid told him shots had been fired but she wasn't even sure he had been hit. He had been confronted by a cop with his gun drawn but wasn't detained after Truly vouched for him. If Oswald had been innocently eating his lunch when the shots were fired, what reason would he have to believe he was being framed for the shooting? Do CTs ever bother to think things through before they dream up these wild ideas?

Very hard for me to see how Oswald "knows he's been framed" unless he at least knows his rifle is in the building. That's really the only thing that "frames" him. So how does he know it's in the building - does he think he's brought it for "show and tell" like we used to do in second grade? Unless he knew "Oh, my God, they have framed me as the assassin of JFK!" his actions make no sense. The CT scenarios where the conspirators removed the rifle from the Paine garage and planted it in the TSBD, or Oswald was instructed to shoot and miss as part of a political message of some sort, are just desperate ad hoc efforts. I really can't think of any plausible "framing" scenario.