Hypothetical question

[John Corbett]

I am skeptical of Agent Landis' claim, 60 years after the fact, that he found the bullet and place it on a gurney. That seems like an odd thing to do. Surely he would have known that was a key piece of evidence and needed to be preserved. I know he probably wasn't an experienced crime scene investigator but even a layman would understand how important that was. Why did he wait 60 years to claim this? I don't think he lied about it. I think he just has a false memory of it.

[Sean Kneringer]

I think he was jealous of Clint Hill's fame/notoriety and decided to make his role on that fateful day larger than it really was.

[Jarrett Smith]

I think he was jealous of Clint Hill's fame/notoriety and decided to make his role on that fateful day larger than it really was.

Both lied to cover their ass. Hung over from the night before.

[Andrew Mason]

Did that Z190 bullet (your CE 399)  stop in JC’s thigh? Because if it did not then how could CE 399 have been found on the stretcher presumably having fallen out of JCs leg while he was on the stretcher?

If it did stop in the  thigh, at 1500 ft/sec it should have been deeply buried in his thigh, which is contrary to the wound being described as a “shallow” wound.

Which is what occurred according to Dr. Shires, the surgeon who treated the wound. A fragment of lead was embedded in the femur as seen on both the lateral and frontal xray views.  Dr, Shires removed damaged tissue down to the region of the femur bone.  He thought it could have been a tangential strike by a large bullet moving at a fast velocity (6H106).

JFKs head was a spherical volume of skull bone and his head was leaning left when he was stuck in the upper right ( occipital parietal) area of the skull. It was nearly a tangential strike. It’s highly probable therefore that the Z313 bullet could fragment into several fragments which deflected upward enough  to hit the inside of the windshield , hit the chrome frame of the windshield and fly over the windshield.

The bullet was moving on a downward path. What did the fragments strike in the head that would have caused an upward deflection?

[Zeon Mason]

Which is what occurred according to Dr. Shires, the surgeon who treated the wound. A fragment of lead was embedded in the femur as seen on both the lateral and frontal xray views.  Dr, Shires removed damaged tissue down to the region of the femur bone.  He thought it could have been a tangential strike by a large bullet moving at a fast velocity (6H106).
The bullet was moving on a downward path. What did the fragments strike in the head that would have caused an upward deflection?

The downward angle at Z313 hitting the higher level right back of JFKs round skull is not as downward as the Z 270 shot angle going thru JC back.

Yet you argue at  that MORE downward angle at Z270 and the exiting of that bullet at a lower point from JCs right side chest (which was facing towards the right side door of the limo) that it’s more plausible than at Z313 that a Z270 bullet fragmented and one piece was deflected upward and leftward by JC’s forearm???

And yet no wound on JC forearm?

Are you sure you didn’t mean to say a fragment defected off JCs right hand since it looks like in the Z271 frame that JCs right hand has the palm facing away from his chest.

At least we know JC got a wound in the hand unlike your forearm proposal.

[John Corbett]

The simple fact is that a bullet fired from the sniper's nest through JFK's upper torso and exiting from his throat could not have missed JBC. He was directly in the line of fire. Had he not been turned slightly to his right when the bullet struck, it's likely he would have been hit more toward the center of his back, probably just right of his spine. The single bullet was inevitable given where the bullet entered and exited from JFK.

[Andrew Mason]

I think he was jealous of Clint Hill's fame/notoriety and decided to make his role on that fateful day larger than it really was.

What is the evidence of that?  I don't know whether Landis' is deliberately lying or whether his memory is accurate, but his stated motive sounds plausible: It was bothering his conscience and he was getting to the end of his life and wanted to set matters straight.  If that really was his motive, then he would have believed he was telling the truth. But that doesn't mean his memory is accurate.

The evidence against Landis is that in his statement after the events (30Nov63 CE1024 18 H 751): 1. he mentioned only picking up Jackie's purse, hat and a cigarette lighter from the back seat of the car and 2. he never mentioned going into the operating room where he now says he placed the bullet on JFK's stretcher. 

However, he would have realized that he should not have done what he did but should have realized that the bullet was important evidence and provided it immediately to the FBI.  He should at least have mentioned it to his superior officer in the Secret Service. That may explain why he did not mention it - for fear of being disciplined or fired from his job.  Possibly.

Is it possible that Landis correctly remembered placing the bullet on JFK's stretcher but was mistaken as to where that stretcher was when he placed it there.  Although Jackie may have been permitted to enter the operating room, it is less likely that Landis would have accompanied her into the room as it was crowded and medical staff did not present a security issue. If Landis had placed it at the foot of JFK's stretcher before it was moved into the operating room then that would avoid the problem: he was simply mistaken in recalling after 60 years where the stretcher was when he placed the bullet on it.

The final problem with Landis' story is that the WC found that the bullet had been on Connally's stretcher.   I have always wondered about how they could be so sure when Tomlinson, the hospital engineer who discovered CE399, was pretty sure it was not Connally's stretcher. 

Tomlinson related that he was asked to close off the elevator and operate it manually. When he entered the elevator on the second floor there was a stretcher already on it ("Stretcher A" as it is referred to in Tomlinson's testimony).  The second floor was the floor where the operating room was, which was where Connally was being operated on.  After they moved Connally onto the operating table the stretcher was placed in the elevator expecting other staff to take it down for cleanup. Tomlinson descended to the ground floor, where he removed the stretcher and parked it beside another stretcher (stretcher "B") that was already there.  JFK had been in Trauma Room 1 on the ground floor. Tomlinson said that a man moved stretcher B back from the wall so he could access a washroom and when he exited he did not move the stretcher back.  So Tomlinson said he moved it back against the wall and when he did it bumped the wall and the bullet fell onto the floor. He was pretty sure it came from stretcher B (6 H 130-131):

"Mr. TOMLINSON. I bumped the wall and a spent cartridge or bullet rolled out that apparently had been lodged under the edge of the mat.
Mr. SPECTER. And that was from which stretcher?
Mr. TOMLINSON. I believe that it was “B”.
Mr. SPECTER. And what was on “B”, if you recall ; if anything?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, at one end they had one or two sheets rolled up; I didn’t examine them. They were bloody. They were rolled up on the east end of it and there were a few surgical instruments on the opposite end and a sterile pack or so. "

He noted that the sheets were bloody.  Obviously JFK's sheets were bloody.  Jackie's dress was bloody.  The car seat was bloody. Everything around JFK was bloody. Even the operating room floor.  But the same could not be said for JBC. His shirt was not bloody. His cuff was not bloody. His jacket was not bloody.  While the medical reports for JFK mention "there was a great flow of blood from the cranial cavity, indicating that there was much vascular damage as well as brain tissue damage" and two lots of blood being obtained from the blood bank, there was no mention of external blood in the reports on Connally.  There was evidence that the sheet JBC was lying on did have some blood on it (Wester 6 H 123).

Was stretcher B JFK's? Nurse Henchcliffe said that they gathered up the sheets that had been placed on the floor so that staff would not step in the pools of blood from the floor from JFK's head wound.  She said that an orderly placed them in a laundry hamper.  She said that there were some items and sheets on the stretcher and the stretcher was moved into Trauma Room 2 (which had been where JBC was examined before being taken to the operating room).  She was asked if the sheets on or off the stretcher when was taken out and she said "I believe they were off." (6 H 142).

That is not much to go on but it seems to me that it is possible that stretcher B was the stretcher from which CE399 fell and stretcher B was not JBC's. If JFK's stretcher was taken to Trauma room 2 as Henchcliffe said, it may have been moved from there to the hallway before Tomlinson descended from the second floor and put stretcher A beside it.  The fact that Tomlinson said the sheets on it were bloody is worth noting.

In light of Landis' story, one may have to reopen the possibility that the bullet came from JFK's stretcher.

But Landis' story doesn't change the fact that CE399 came from somewhere within the confines of the limo interior.  And, in the end, that is all that matters.  How it found its way out of JBC's leg will probably have to remain something unknowable.  I would rather accept not knowing than having to accept a particular explanation that is a best a guess.