Hypothetical question

[Andrew Mason]

There is no evidence as to any of the 3 shots causing Tague's injury, only speculation. The only one I would rule out would be the second one because that was CE399 was recovered intact except for small fragments of lead from the base. What you mean is taking selected witnesses' statements at face value which is a silly thing to do given how often witnesses are wrong about important details. If we take witness statements at face value, we would have to conclude the shooting happened a dozen or more ways. I can read what Hickey said but that doesn't mean I'm going to assume he got everything right. That's your game.

You obviously haven't read Tague's testimony (7 H 555):

Mr. LIEBELER Do you have any idea which bullet might have made that mark?
Mr. TAGUE. I would guess it was either the second or third. I wouldn’t say
definitely on which one.
Mr. LIEBELER . Did you hear any more shots after you felt yourself get hit in
the face?
Mr. TAGUE. I believe I did.
Mr. LIEBELER. You think you did?
Mr. TAGUE. I believe I did.
Mr. LIEBELER. How many?
Mr. TAGUE. I believe that it was the second shot, so I heard the third shot afterwards.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you hear three shots?
Mr. TAGUE. I heard three shots; yes sir. And I did notice the time on the Hertz clock. It was 12:29.

The WC even remarked "In Tague's opinion, it was the second shot which caused the mark, since he thinks he heard the third shot after he was hit in the face." (WR 116).

[John Corbett]

You obviously haven't read Tague's testimony (7 H 555):

Mr. LIEBELER Do you have any idea which bullet might have made that mark?
Mr. TAGUE. I would guess it was either the second or third. I wouldn’t say
definitely on which one.
Mr. LIEBELER . Did you hear any more shots after you felt yourself get hit in
the face?
Mr. TAGUE. I believe I did.
Mr. LIEBELER. You think you did?
Mr. TAGUE. I believe I did.
Mr. LIEBELER. How many?
Mr. TAGUE. I believe that it was the second shot, so I heard the third shot afterwards.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you hear three shots?
Mr. TAGUE. I heard three shots; yes sir. And I did notice the time on the Hertz clock. It was 12:29.

The WC even remarked "In Tague's opinion, it was the second shot which caused the mark, since he thinks he heard the third shot after he was hit in the face." (WR 116).

So you think a witness who said "I guess" and then wasn't sure if it was the second or third shot is compelling? Why am I not surprised.

He even disagrees with the consensus of opinion that the Hertz clock as 12:30. Nothing he said establishes anything as a fact. He's guessing about everything.

[Andrew Mason]

So you think a witness who said "I guess" and then wasn't sure if it was the second or third shot is compelling? Why am I not surprised.

He initially said he "would guess it was either the second or third".   But when asked whether he heard any more shots after he felt the hit in the face he thought about it and said "I believe I did".  When asked "You think you did?" he replied "I believe I did" "I believe that it was the second shot. So I heard the third shot afterwards".  He has never deviated from that since.  As I say, it is not the greatest evidence but it is evidence.  So it is factually incorrect to say that there is no evidence as to which shot struck Tague.  And, for what it is worth, it fits with what Greer said about sensing an impact in the car on the second shot. (The dent in the windshield frame was within a foot of his right ear).

He even disagrees with the consensus of opinion that the Hertz clock as 12:30. Nothing he said establishes anything as a fact. He's guessing about everything.

If I had known you were going to question that I would have added the next question and answer (7 H 555):

"Mr. LIEBELER. That was about the time that you felt yourself struck?
Mr. TAGUE. I just glanced. I mean I just stopped, got out of my car, and here came the motorcade. I just happened upon the scene."

So it appears that the time 12:29 may have been when he glanced at the clock as he was getting out of the car which was just before the shots. Others looked at the clock after the shots and said it read 12:30.

[Zeon Mason]

Problem for a shot at Z270 hitting JC is that the bullet is NOT fragmenting into multiple pieces. If the conventional LN theory for a 2nd shot is CE 399 which went thru 2 bodies and a wrist bone and that CE 399 did NOT fragment , then why should we believe a Z270 shot that only passed  thru JCs body would fragment?

So unless this Z 270 bullet exiting JCs lower right side chest at 1500 ft/ sec did some amazing deflecting back  left and upward to get past the front seat , then over the windshield and then makes a final physics defying parabolic arc downwards again after traveling across the plaza green, there no way it’s hitting the curb near Tague.

[Andrew Mason]

Problem for a shot at Z270 hitting JC is that the bullet is NOT fragmenting into multiple pieces. If the conventional LN theory for a 2nd shot is CE 399 which went thru 2 bodies and a wrist bone and that CE 399 did NOT fragment , then why should we believe a Z270 shot that only passed  thru JCs body would fragment?

 I say A (CE399 was the first shot and did not cause JBC’s torso wound) is false and B (the second shot struck JBC in the torso and forearm and fragmented with fragments going high on and over the windshield causing the windshield damage and striking Tague) is true, based on the evidence.  You argue that B can’t be true because if B was true then A couldn’t be true! That is true of course, but it doesn’t advance an argument.

The whole point is that CE 399 did not pass “thru 2 and a wrist bone”.  I am suggesting it passed through JFK ‘s neck and caused JBC’s thigh wound.  That is why it was hardly damaged.

If a second shot struck JBC at full speed and struck bone in the torso and smashed the radius it would have experienced forces that exceeded the yield strength of its copper jacket, which means it would have fragmented.

So unless this Z 270 bullet exiting JCs lower right side chest at 1500 ft/ sec did some amazing deflecting back  left and upward to get past the front seat , then over the windshield and then makes a final physics defying parabolic arc downwards again after traveling across the plaza green, there no way it’s hitting the curb near Tague.

If it strikes the radius at z271 or so and bullet fragments deflect off the back of the forearm surface which is angled up and to the right, they are going to deflect away from the point of contact, which is up and to the left. 

One fragment struck the windshield frame so something deflected it upward. How would a fragment from the head shot have deflected upward? What could fragments have struck to cause such a deflection?

[John Corbett]

I say A (CE399 was the first shot and did not cause JBC’s torso wound) is false and B (the second shot struck JBC in the torso and forearm and fragmented with fragments going high on and over the windshield causing the windshield damage and striking Tague) is true, based on the evidence.  You argue that B can’t be true because if B was true then A couldn’t be true! That is true of course, but it doesn’t advance an argument.

The whole point is that CE 399 did not pass “thru 2 and a wrist bone”.  I am suggesting it passed through JFK ‘s neck and caused JBC’s thigh wound.  That is why it was hardly damaged.

If a second shot struck JBC at full speed and struck bone in the torso and smashed the radius it would have experienced forces that exceeded the yield strength of its copper jacket, which means it would have fragmented.
If it strikes the radius at z271 or so and bullet fragments deflect off the back of the forearm surface which is angled up and to the right, they are going to deflect away from the point of contact, which is up and to the left. 

One fragment struck the windshield frame so something deflected it upward. How would a fragment from the head shot have deflected upward? What could fragments have struck to cause such a deflection?

A fantasy that exists only in your mind.

[Zeon Mason]

I say A (CE399 was the first shot and did not cause JBC’s torso wound) is false and B (the second shot struck JBC in the torso and forearm and fragmented with fragments going high on and over the windshield causing the windshield damage and striking Tague) is true, based on the evidence.  You argue that B can’t be true because if B was true then A couldn’t be true! That is true of course, but it doesn’t advance an argument.

The whole point is that CE 399 did not pass “thru 2 and a wrist bone”.  I am suggesting it passed through JFK ‘s neck and caused JBC’s thigh wound.  That is why it was hardly damaged.

If a second shot struck JBC at full speed and struck bone in the torso and smashed the radius it would have experienced forces that exceeded the yield strength of its copper jacket, which means it would have fragmented.
If it strikes the radius at z271 or so and bullet fragments deflect off the back of the forearm surface which is angled up and to the right, they are going to deflect away from the point of contact, which is up and to the left. 

One fragment struck the windshield frame so something deflected it upward. How would a fragment from the head shot have deflected upward? What could fragments have struck to cause such a deflection?

Did that Z190 bullet (your CE 399)  stop in JC’s thigh? Because if it did not then how could CE 399 have been found on the stretcher presumably having fallen out of JCs leg while he was on the stretcher?

If it did stop in the  thigh, at 1500 ft/sec it should have been deeply buried in his thigh, which is contrary to the wound being described as a “shallow” wound.

If it kept going after striking the left thigh, it would have gone into the front seat cushion and metal springs. Maybe it could have stopped there and then fallen onto the floor board later to be discovered by an SS agent who placed it on a stretcher without telling anyone about finding it until 60 years later. 🙄

JFKs head was a spherical volume of skull bone and his head was leaning left when he was stuck in the upper right ( occipital parietal) area of the skull. It was nearly a tangential strike. It’s highly probable therefore that the Z313 bullet could fragment into several fragments which deflected upward enough  to hit the inside of the windshield , hit the chrome frame of the windshield and fly over the windshield.

An irregular shaped fragment hitting the chrome windshield could bounce back in any number of ways.

The Dale Myers computer model has lined up all wounds  of JC and JFK at z224 including JCs right hand wrist bone, and there’s no fragmenting of the CE 399. The bullet was slowed from 2000 ft/ sec to 1500 ft/sec as it exited JFKs body. It was further slowed down to 900 ft/ sec approx as it exited JCs right side chest and it struck JC in his right hand at 900 ft/ sec, went THRU the wrist bone and exited the lower palm of his hand which slowed it down enough that when it hit JVs inner left thigh, it stopped creating only a shallow wound. That’s why the WC story  is that CE 399 fell out of JCs thigh and was found on a stretcher or found in the car or fell out and was picked up off the floor of the operating room or something like that (lolz).