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Author Topic: Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272  (Read 72561 times)

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272
« Reply #476 on: Yesterday at 11:32:30 PM »
You seem to be saying that JBC was facing the general direction of the TSBD when he was hit.

If that's what you're saying, how is that consistent with the fact that the bullet penetrated his back near his right armpit and exited his chest?
That is what all the evidence says. All I am saying is that what happened will fit with the evidence.

The evidence says that JBC had turned right and had turned his head to look behind him at the time of the second shot. Altgen#6 captures JBC’s torso position at z254-255:



and if he turns much farther right than that before z271 it is not apparent.  We can see that a shot from the SE 6th floor window is not going to strike the front of his chest let alone go backwards through his chest.

Witnesses near JBC when the second shot sounded said that JBC was turned sideways to his right.  His doctors were interviewed by the Secret Service who reported that the doctors agreed that JBC ‘s torso was turned right so that it was nearly parallel to the trajectory of the bullet:

« Last Edit: Yesterday at 11:37:57 PM by Andrew Mason »

Online Tom Graves

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Re: Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272
« Reply #477 on: Today at 12:03:44 AM »
That is what all the evidence says. All I am saying is that what happened will fit with the evidence.

The evidence says that JBC had turned right and had turned his head to look behind him at the time of the second shot. Altgen#6 captures JBC’s torso position at z254-255:

[image deleted]

and if he turns much farther right than that before z271 it is not apparent.  We can see that a shot from the SE 6th floor window is not going to strike the front of his chest let alone go backwards through his chest.

Witnesses near JBC when the second shot sounded said that JBC was turned sideways to his right.  His doctors were interviewed by the Secret Service who reported that the doctors agreed that JBC ‘s torso was turned right so that it was nearly parallel to the trajectory of the bullet:


You haven't answered my question.

Let me rephrase it for you:

If JBC was hit by a bullet fired from the TSBD around Z-272 (when his back was turned away from the TSBD), how is it possible that said bullet penetrated his back near his right armpit and exited his chest?

« Last Edit: Today at 12:08:48 AM by Tom Graves »

Online John Corbett

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Re: Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272
« Reply #478 on: Today at 12:38:09 AM »
You haven't answered my question.

Let me rephrase it for you:

If JBC was hit by a bullet fired from the TSBD around Z-272 (when his back was turned away from the TSBD), how is it possible that said bullet penetrated his back near his right armpit and exited his chest?

I have pointed out that impossibility to Andrew numerous times and it has never sunk in. I doubt you will have any better luck. Andrew committed to his goofball theory decades ago and won't let go of it no matter how many absurdities are needed to try to explain it.
He has JBC twisting and turning like a contortionist, first to avoid the bullet which he thinks exited JFK's throat at Z193, then to get hit in the back by a shot at or about Z270 when he is facing Oswald. He ignores the fact that JBC is obviously reacting to a serious gunshot wound by Z226 when he first flips his arm upward and then dips hard to the right and gyrates into the position we see him in at Z270. He doesn't care that nothing he proposes is remotely possible, but he hangs on to it anyway.

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272
« Reply #479 on: Today at 01:50:17 AM »
You haven't answered my question.

Let me rephrase it for you:

If JBC was hit by a bullet fired from the TSBD around Z-272 (when his back was turned away from the TSBD), how is it possible that said bullet penetrated his back near his right armpit and exited his chest?
I answered your question.  The part of his body where the bullet entered was facing Oswald’s rifle at the time of the second shot. He was hit on the right side in the right armpit area just forward and lateral to the right scapula.  Here is what the path through JBC may have looked like based on the evidence:

« Last Edit: Today at 01:52:32 AM by Andrew Mason »

Online Tom Graves

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Re: Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272
« Reply #480 on: Today at 02:30:38 AM »
The part of JBC's body where the bullet entered was facing Oswald’s rifle at the time of the second shot [Z-271 or Z-272]. He was hit on the right side in the right armpit area.

The bullet didn't penetrate JBC's side, it penetrated the rear surface of his torso, i.e., his back, near his right armpit. Since it exited just below his right nipple, for your theory to work said bullet would have to have been fired from Harry D. Holmes' office on the fifth floor of the Terminal Annex Building.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z272.jpg

LOL!

« Last Edit: Today at 02:32:54 AM by Tom Graves »

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272
« Reply #481 on: Today at 02:35:09 AM »
The bullet didn't penetrate JBC's side, it penetrated the rear surface of his torso, i.e., his back, near his right armpit. Since it exited just below his right nipple, for your theory to work said bullet would have to have been fired from Harry D. Holmes' office on the fifth floor of the Terminal Annex building.

LOL!
You need to check the medical evidence. It struck the fifth rib with great force breaking the rib near the spine but missed the scapula.  If the shot was from behind it would not have struck the fifth rib - at most a slight glancing hit.

Online Tom Graves

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Re: Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272
« Reply #482 on: Today at 03:21:40 AM »
You need to check the medical evidence. It struck the fifth rib with great force breaking the rib near the spine but missed the scapula.  If the shot was from behind it would not have struck the fifth rib - at most a slight glancing hit.

What do you mean, "If the shot was from behind"?

It hit him in his back.

Regardless, . . .

ME: Is this statement correct? -- "The bullet that struck John Connally on 11/22/63 penetrated his right side, not his back, and struck his fifth rib with such great force that it broke it near the spine. It did not penetrate or hit his scapula. If the bullet had hit him in the back, it would have, at most, glanced the rib."

Perplexity AI: No. As written, the first and last sentences conflict with the primary medical testimony.

Dr. Robert Shaw placed Connally’s entrance wound in the right posterior shoulder, medial to the axillary fold—i.e., the back/posterior chest, not simply “his right side.” He testified that the projectile passed through the chest wall and hit the fifth rib at approximately its midpoint, following the rib’s slant and shattering about 10 cm of it.

The medical testimony supports saying that there was no documented scapular penetration or scapular fracture. It does not support saying that the bullet struck the fifth rib “near the spine”: Shaw said its midpoint.

And the final claim is not correct as a categorical statement. A projectile entering from the posterior chest can miss the scapula and still directly strike—and severely shatter—the fifth rib. A posterior entry does not logically require only a glancing contact.

Accurate revision

The bullet that wounded John Connally entered the right posterior shoulder/chest, medial to the axillary fold, without a documented strike of the scapula. It passed through the chest wall, struck the fifth rib at approximately its midpoint, and shattered roughly 10 cm of the rib. The fact that the entrance was posterior does not, by itself, mean the rib impact had to be glancing.

ME: Disregarding the wounds to his wrist and to his thigh, are the entrance and exit wound locations plus the shattering of ten centimeters of his fifth rib consistent with the theory that he was hit when his back was turned towards the TSBD?

Perplexity AI: Yes — in broad anatomical and geometric terms, Connally’s chest wounds and fifth-rib damage are consistent with a shot from the sixth-floor TSBD when he was rotated so that his right posterior chest [i.e., his back] faced back toward the Depository. They are not, however, sufficiently specific to establish that origin on their own.

Wound course

The documented course was an entrance in Connally’s right posterior chest/back, medial to the axillary fold, descending through the chest, striking and fragmenting the fifth rib at approximately its midpoint, then exiting the anterior right chest below the nipple. The Commission’s account likewise describes an entrance on the right side of his back and a downward chest trajectory.

If Connally had turned to his right — as the Commission’s reconstruction proposed — his right posterior thorax would be exposed toward a shooter behind and above him at the TSBD. A downward, forward-moving projectile could therefore enter the posterior chest [i.e., his back], strike a rib obliquely, and emerge through the front of the right chest.

The rib fracture

Shattering approximately 10 cm of the rib suggests a high-energy collision, potentially along an oblique segment of the rib; it does not require a frontal impact. It is compatible with the Commission’s claimed rear-to-front, downward course. The fracture’s extent cannot determine whether the firearm was in the TSBD rather than another rearward or elevated location.

ME: You said, "Shattering approximately 10 cm of the rib suggests a high-energy collision, potentially along an oblique segment of the rib; it does not require a frontal impact."

Question: Does it require a side impact?


Perplexity AI: No. It does not require a side impact.

Shattering a long rib segment requires significant energy transfer and a trajectory that intersects the rib, but the direction can be posterior-to-anterior, lateral-to-medial, anterior-to-posterior, or some oblique combination. The clinically relevant geometry is the projectile’s angle relative to the curved, sloping rib, not whether it approached from the victim’s anatomical side. Bone damage and the wound tract must be reconstructed together to infer direction.

Applied to Connally

If “side impact” means a shot entering Connally’s right flank/lateral chest, the evidence does not require it. A shot entering his right posterior chest could strike the fifth rib forcefully as it moved forward and downward; if its course was angled across or partly along the rib, it could fragment an extended portion of it.

Conversely, the approximately 10 cm fracture does suggest that the bullet’s contact had a meaningful component along the rib’s length—an oblique collision rather than a trivial surface graze. But “oblique to the rib” is not synonymous with “from the side.” The path can be oblique to a rib while originating behind and above Connally.

ME: Does it require the bullet's penetrating his right side instead of his back?

Perplexity AI: No. The rib fragmentation does not require a bullet to have entered Connally’s right lateral side rather than his back.

A bullet entering the right posterior chest/back can intersect the fifth rib at an oblique angle and transfer enough energy to fracture a long section, especially if its path has a component along the rib’s curved/sloping course. The critical variables are the impact angle relative to the rib, velocity, projectile orientation, and the rib’s geometry—not whether the skin entrance is classified as “side” or “back.”

The medical descriptions themselves locate Connally’s entrance in the right posterior chest/back, while describing the fifth-rib fragmentation. Thus, the documented injury is direct evidence that severe rib damage is compatible with a posterior entrance.



« Last Edit: Today at 03:23:07 AM by Tom Graves »