Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272

[Andrew Mason]

That doesn't establish that JFK's hair movement was the result of a passing bullet. That is a supposition on your part.

My point is that it doesn‘t matter AT ALL whether the bullet passing near caused the hair to fly up. All that matters is that there is evidence (from Hickey and Kinney) that the sound of second shot coincided with that hair movement. The evidence that it struck JBC in the right armpit puts it pretty close to JFK at that point but it does not matter what caused the hair to move.

[John Corbett]

My point is that it doesn‘t matter AT ALL whether the bullet passing near caused the hair to fly up. All that matters is that there is evidence (from Hickey and Kinney) that the sound of second shot coincided with that hair movement. The evidence that it struck JBC in the right armpit puts it pretty close to JFK at that point but it does not matter what caused the hair to move.

There is no evidence that a bullet struck JBC even close to Z271. That is the result of your FUBAR figuring.

In order to believe your scenario, I would have to believe that both JFK and JBC were hit by Oswald's first shot at a time both would have been obscured from Oswald's view by the pin oak tree in front of the TSBD. I would have to believe that neither reacted at that time to being hit. I would have to believe that JFK began to slowly lower his right arm and that neither man showed any reaction for 33 frames, almost 2 seconds, and then suddenly both flipped their arms upward rapidly at the same instant (Z226). I would have to believe that JBC after rapidly flipping his right arm up and down then dipped hard to his right, doubled over, then began twisting around dramatically until he was facing JFK at Z265. All of this movement was a reaction to his shallow wound in his left leg.

Now comes the really weird part. You expect us to believe that Oswald fired a shot at Z271 that hit JBC in the back, exited from his chest, and struck his wrist at frame Z271. This frame Z271:
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z271.jpg

Just how in the hell does Oswald shoot JBC in the back at Z271 and have the bullet exit from the right side of his chest and go on to fracture his wrist?
If that isn't unbelievable enough, you then have Oswald firing a precision headshot just 42 frames later at the bare minimum time a shooter could theoretically have done so. Am I really supposed to believe all that?

[Andrew Mason]

Of course it's not. People who think they clearly remember an event can be dead wrong. Being certain isn't the same as being correct.

I continue to be amazed at your willingness to put so much faith in the weakest form of evidence we have which is witness testimony.

It is NOT a matter of putting blind faith in witnesses. That a witness can be a poor observer is a given. A good example would be AJ Millican who recalled 8 shots over several minutes or Jean Hill who reported seeing a small dog in the limo. But these stand out because no one else made that same observation.   

Although you are a poor witness, apparently,  most people are quite capable of observing and accurately recalling details.  They are especially reliable if most other witnesses also provided an observation of the same detail eg (shot pattern, colour of Jackie’s suit, loudness of sound, number of shots). This is confirmed by the studies done by psychology experts who have done controlled studies on human perception and memory. 

But that doesn’t matter.  The studies don’t matter.  The only thing that matters is whether there is  independent evidence, including the recollections of other witnesses, of the same fact. 

In this case there are three independent bodies of evidence corroborating that JFK reacted to the first shot.  Because there is such a high proportion of witnesses who made corroborating observations, one does not have to assess whether individual pieces are reliable. You just have to consider the probability this evidence could agree the way it does but still be incorrect.  That’s how fingerprint matching, firearm matching, and even DNA matching works. And it is how fact-finders find facts from evidence.

[Andrew Mason]

There is no evidence that a bullet struck JBC even close to Z271. That is the result of your FUBAR figuring.

That is simply an incorrect statement. There is evidence (shot pattern, Altgens, Hickey Nellie, Greer, etc). You just refuse to accept it. Do you really think the FBI went to the trouble building all these models without some evidence:

In order to believe your scenario, I would have to believe that both JFK and JBC were hit by Oswald's first shot at a time both would have been obscured from Oswald's view by the pin oak tree in front of the TSBD.

JFK was visible when he passed the lamp post.  You obviously have trouble recalling what I have posted many times:

I would have to believe that neither reacted at that time to being hit. I would have to believe that JFK began to slowly lower his right arm and that neither man showed any reaction for 33 frames, almost 2 seconds, and then suddenly both flipped their arms upward rapidly at the same instant (Z226).

JFK is obviously reacting before z225 because he is already in a contorted position. Look at his face and hands.

I would have to believe that JBC after rapidly flipping his right arm up and down then dipped hard to his right, doubled over, then began twisting around dramatically until he was facing JFK at Z265. All of this movement was a reaction to his shallow wound in his left leg.

You are apparently not familiar with what he said he did in reaction to the first shot. What he did from z230-270 is generally consistent with what both he and Nellie he said he did after the first shot-he turned around to his right and uttered “oh, no, no” because he knew he had just heard a rifle shot and thought assassination was underway.  Jackie turns to look at him, as she said she did, when he starts shouting in the mid z240s.  Nellie said he uttered that before the second shot, which fits. JBC said it was as he was hit, although he said it might have been before he was hit (to the HSCA).

Now comes the really weird part. You expect us to believe that Oswald fired a shot at Z271 that hit JBC in the back, exited from his chest, and struck his wrist at frame Z271. This frame Z271:
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z271.jpg

Just how in the hell does Oswald shoot JBC in the back at Z271 and have the bullet exit from the right side of his chest and go on to fracture his wrist?

It just requires a slight deflection to the right on the bullet hitting the back.

If that isn't unbelievable enough, you then have Oswald firing a precision headshot just 42 frames later at the bare minimum time a shooter could theoretically have done so. Am I really supposed to believe all that?

No. That is just what the evidence says happened.  You don’t have to accept it.

[John Corbett]

That is simply an incorrect statement. There is evidence (shot pattern, Altgens, Hickey Nellie, Greer, etc). You just refuse to accept it. Do you really think the FBI went to the trouble building all these models without some evidence:





JFK was visible when he passed the lamp post.  You obviously have trouble recalling what I have posted many times:

JFK is obviously reacting before z225 because he is already in a contorted position. Look at his face and hands.
You are apparently not familiar with what he said he did in reaction to the first shot. What he did from z230-270 is generally consistent with what both he and Nellie he said he did after the first shot-he turned around to his right and uttered “oh, no, no” because he knew he had just heard a rifle shot and thought assassination was underway.  Jackie turns to look at him, as she said she did, when he starts shouting in the mid z240s.  Nellie said he uttered that before the second shot, which fits. JBC said it was as he was hit, although he said it might have been before he was hit (to the HSCA).
It just requires a slight deflection to the right on the bullet hitting the back.No. That is just what the evidence says happened.  You don’t have to accept it.

It is comical the mental gymnastics you are willing to go through to try and make your scenario seem plausible. It's not working. JBC's position at Z271 alone blows your theory out of the water. It is not remotely possible he could have shot JBC in the back at that point and have the bullet come out the right side of his torso. It would take a hell of a lot more than "a slight deflection to the right" for that to happen. It would require the most magical of all magic bullets. Just what would cause such a dramatic deflection? The bullet hit no bone until it exited from JBC's chest. If it was even possible for the bullet to enter JBC's back at Z271, it would be a tangential strike and the bullet would only graze him. It's unbelievable the things you have convinced yourself of to try and salvage your cockamamie theory. Give it up. You're embarrassing yourself.

[Andrew Mason]

It is comical the mental gymnastics you are willing to go through to try and make your scenario seem plausible. It's not working. JBC's position at Z271 alone blows your theory out of the water. It is not remotely possible he could have shot JBC in the back at that point and have the bullet come out the right side of his torso. It would take a hell of a lot more than "a slight deflection to the right" for that to happen. It would require the most magical of all magic bullets. Just what would cause such a dramatic deflection? The bullet hit no bone until it exited from JBC's chest. If it was even possible for the bullet to enter JBC's back at Z271, it would be a tangential strike and the bullet would only graze him. It's unbelievable the things you have convinced yourself of to try and salvage your cockamamie theory. Give it up. You're embarrassing yourself.

You seem to have an incorrect understanding of JBC’s torso wound. It forcefully struck the fifth rib at the edge of the right scapula. The rib is a bone. This was so forceful that it resulted in a fracture of the rib at the spine. Since the angle of the bullet trajectory to the car direction was about 5 degrees at that point - almost directly behind - and because the torso was twisted, the right nipple was slightly to the right of the point where the bullet entered the back (ie following along the initial trajectory). Since the bullet struck the fifth rib at a glancing angle and followed it around the pulmonary wall without passing through it, it had to have been deflected right.

A bullet exiting the chest at that point would necessarily have struck the right forearm.  Since the bullet did this to the back of the french cuff:

causing a wound to the radius 5 cm (2 in) above the wrist crease but left no exit hole in the other side of the cuff, whatever caused the slit in the volar side of the forearm 1.5 cm from the wrist crease did not leave a mark in the cuff.  Explaining how all that could have been caused by an intact 3cm long bullet, CE399, requires real mental gymnastics.

[John Corbett]

You seem to have an incorrect understanding of JBC’s torso wound. It forcefully struck the fifth rib at the edge of the right scapula. The rib is a bone. This was so forceful that it resulted in a fracture of the rib at the spine. Since the angle of the bullet trajectory to the car direction was about 5 degrees at that point - almost directly behind - and because the torso was twisted, the right nipple was slightly to the right of the point where the bullet entered the back (ie following along the initial trajectory). Since the bullet struck the fifth rib at a glancing angle and followed it around the pulmonary wall without passing through it, it had to have been deflected right.

A bullet exiting the chest at that point would necessarily have struck the right forearm.  Since the bullet did this to the back of the french cuff:

causing a wound to the radius 5 cm (2 in) above the wrist crease but left no exit hole in the other side of the cuff, whatever caused the slit in the volar side of the forearm 1.5 cm from the wrist crease did not leave a mark in the cuff.  Explaining how all that could have been caused by an intact 3cm long bullet, CE399, requires real mental gymnastics.

Have you really convinced yourself of this nonsense. One look at frame Z271 should tell you that what you are claiming is impossible. It didn't happen because it couldn't happen. Not one in a million.