On the Trail of Delusion, Episode 32, The Single-Bullet Theory Panel Discussion

[John Corbett]

JC-

Thanks for your comments.

Even if we ignore Jackie K's reaction, we see JFK at Z-226, obviously struck:

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z226.jpg

JBC is sitting bolt upright at Z-226. JBC's testimony is the shot that struck him in his back pushed him forward.

I will run with JBC's version of what happened to himself on this one. Witnesses can be in error, we all know that.

But JBC remembering receiving a blow in the back and getting pushed forward...that seems basic.

Hard to tell when JBC was struck, and the exact orientation of his torso. I concede all of that, which is why i say about Z-295. Might be later. The second gunsel was perhaps not in the TSBD.

JBC getting struck ~z-295 also lines up with many witnesses who heard a "bang.....bang-bang" cadence.

---

We are on different pages on this one, but that happens in JFKA discussions.

I respect your views, I just disagree.

Yes, JFK was hit by Z226. In fact, that is the moment he reacted by suddenly raising both arms. What you ignore is that is the same frame JBC suddenly flipped his right arm upward. What do you suppose caused him to do that. Was he anticipating getting shot. It seems quite a coincidence to me that both men would suddenly flip their arms upward simultaneously if they had not both been hit by the same bullet.

You are not going with JBC. He thought he was hit about Z230. He apparently bases that guess on seeing the reaction he remembers making upon being struck, which was a cognitive reaction. His involuntary reflexive action happened quicker and began a few frames earlier. He had no memory of flipping his arm upward. I think I remember reading somewhere that JBC didn't even know his wrist had been shattered until he came out of surgery, although I don't remember the source for that.

[John Corbett]

That's not correct, John. Governor Connally's first visible signs of distress occur in Z225 (facial distortion; his mouth opens; and, most significant, the flinching shoulders--a surefire "reflex action" to an external stimulus).

I supposed we could quibble about whether the movement in JBC's shoulders is a reaction to being shot or simply the force of the bullet driving it forward and downward. Ditto for the open mouth which could be air being driven forcefully from his lung. What is clear is we see both men's arms suddenly being raised at the same frame which is Z226.

[Duncan MacRae]

That's not correct, John. Governor Connally's first visible signs of distress occur in Z225 (facial distortion; his mouth opens; and, most significant, the flinching shoulders--a surefire "reflex action" to an external stimulus).

I would say the first visible sign of Connally in distress occurs at Zapruder Frame 223.

As well as a slight change in Connally's Facial expression, and Irrespective of Zapruder's Camera Jitter, you can see the gap space between his Jacket Lapel and his Neck Tie increase dramatically.

[John Corbett]

I would say the first visible sign of Connally in distress occurs at Zapruder Frame 223.

As well as a slight change in Connally's Facial expression, and Irrespective of Zapruder's Camera Jitter, you can see the gap space between his Jacket Lapel and his Neck Tie increase dramatically.

I think trying to read facial expressions with such a low resolution camera, even when the frames are enlarged, is an exercise in educated guessing. The movement of the shoulders at Z225 is a bit more pronounced but that could be the physical force of the bullet or it could be a reflexive response. Either seems plausible to me. JBC had started rotating his torso back toward the front just before the single bullet struck so his shoulders were already in motion when we see the dip at Z225. What is clear is that we see both men's arms start moving upward at Z226. I have no doubt this is a reflexive response to the single bullet. JBC's right arm continues in a rapid up and down movement that lasts for 9 frames, about a half second, before it disappears below the side of the car. I don't know how anybody can look at that and conclude anything but it being a reflexive response to the bullet hitting his wrist, especially given it is the same frame JFK's arms start upward.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

I would say the first visible sign of Connally in distress occurs at Zapruder Frame 223.
As well as a slight change in Connally's Facial expression, and Irrespective of Zapruder's Camera Jitter, you can see the gap space between his Jacket Lapel and his Neck Tie increase dramatically.

Yes that iz koz the slug struck at Z218, & the mini-lapel-flip iz a sign of the jacket bulge being well formed at that time (ie Z222)(ie 4 frames at 18.3 fps).
And the Z218 corresponds to Lattimer's bulge tests & hiz lapel flip (taken with his 30 fps still camera)(alltho Lattimer's slug landed at in effect Z219)(except that Lattimer's erroneous jacket (the lapel was very very long) & erroneous slug location (too high & allso the slug took a chunk out of the lapel) suggested that Z218 was the true number in 1963.
Z218 had jfk exaktly halfway along the sign (here i mean halfway along/throo the period where jfk dis-appears & re-appears).

[John Corbett]

Yes that iz koz the slug struck at Z218, & the mini-lapel-flip iz a sign of the jacket bulge being well formed at that time (ie 4 frames at 18.3 fps).
And the Z218 corresponds to Lattimer's bulge tests & hiz lapel flip (taken with his 30 fps still camera)(alltho Lattimer's slug landed at in effect Z219)(except that Lattimer's erroneous jacket (the lapel was very very long) & erroneous slug location (too high & allso the slug took a chunk out of the lapel) suggested that Z218 was the true number in 1963.
Z218 had jfk exaktly halfway along the sign (here i mean halfway along/throo the period where jfk dis-appears & re-appears).

Any perceived reaction by JBC prior to Z225 is in the eye of the beholder. I don't see anything that clearly could be called a reaction to being shot. There is going to be a brief time lag between the bullet strike and JBC's reaction. It is my belief the bullet struck at about Z222. In Z223-224 I see nothing but JBC rotating his shoulders back to the front. The jacket bulge at Z224 is the force of the bullet, not a reaction by JBC. The movement at Z225 could also be the force of the bullet or a reaction by JBC. I'm not convinced one way ro the other.

[Benjamin Cole]

JM--

BTW, the tumbling theory SBT is entirely dead, and I am the man who killed it.

I found this photo of Gov. JBC's assassination-day shirt:



At: https://www.tsl.texas.gov/sites/default/files/public/tslac/landing/documents/jfk-damaged-clothing18.pdf

A small round hole in the rear of JBC's shirt. Like a direct shot, no? A tumbling bullet did not make a small round hole in JBC's shirt.

Again in a nutshell, JBC says the shot that struck him pushed him forward.

Connally: I was knocked over, just doubled over by the force of the bullet. It went in my back and came out my chest about 2 inches below and the left of my right nipple. The force of the bullet drove my body over almost double and when I looked, immediately I could see I was just drenched with blood. (1 HSCA 42)

In addition, both JBC and his wife testified: first shot hit JFK, then JBC turned to look, began to turn forward, second shot hit JBC, and third shot hit JFK. All that happens in the run-up to ~Z-295.

Then we have testimony of Dr. Robert Shaw, JBC surgeon who had worked on 700 military war-time gunshot victims. Shaw thought the shot that had struck JBC likely was unimpeded by anything (straight shot). 

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/pdf/WH6_Shaw.pdf

Shaw also found inexplicable the wound to the dorsal (wristwatch) side of JBC's wrist, as confirmed by Dr. Gregory (Connally's wrist surgeon). In other words, the bullet entered JBC's wrist about where a wristwatch face would be, and exited the dorsal (opposite) side. Try holding your wristwatch face in front on your navel to get an idea of some problems presented by this awkward scenario.

Anatomical Implausibility: Shaw expressed doubt (to the HSCA) regarding how a single bullet could transition from the Governor's chest into the dorsal (back) side of his wrist, suggesting it would be anatomically difficult for the Governor to have held his arm in such a position.--AI

Like others, I have looked at the Z-film many times.  I just do not see any sign that JBC is in severe pain after in the frames following Z-222-225. He may look startled, or he may look like nothing.

However, JBC indisputably makes a 180-degree in his seat to look for JFK after Z-225, around Z-265.

So, if JBC was struck by the same shot that struck JFK, he then made a 180-degree turn in his seat...after being shot through the chest, and having his right wrist shattered and a slug burrowing into his left thigh. That is the SBT contention. 

For me, that does not hold water.

Then, we have the "bang....bang-bang" sequence most earwitnesses heard. That lines up better with my scenario.

The shot to JBC's wrist remains a curiosity--a shot from the GK? I don't know.

PS. This is a picture of the exit hole in JBC's assassination-day jacket. The bullet did not exit through the lapel.



Hey, just IMHO.

Caveat emptor, and draw your own conclusions

[John Mytton]

JM--

BTW, the tumbling theory SBT is entirely dead, and I am the man who killed it.

I found this photo of Gov. JBC's assassination-day shirt:



At: https://www.tsl.texas.gov/sites/default/files/public/tslac/landing/documents/jfk-damaged-clothing18.pdf

A small round hole in the rear of JBC's shirt. Like a direct shot, no? A tumbling bullet did not make a small round hole in JBC's shirt.

Thanks Ben, I looked into this and researched what happens to fabric when acted upon with a bullet because at face value something didn't add up, for a start the hole appears to be square and the dimensions of the hole exceed the size of a 6.5 mm Carcano bullet and on either side of the hole, the fabric was excessively ragged.

Then as they say in the classics, corroborated evidence is some of the best evidence, so I went back to Dr. Gregory's testimony where he says that the bullet entrance was linear and perhaps 3/4 of an inch long and looking closely at the higher quality image of Connally's shirt it became immediately apparent that the shredding started at a point which corresponds with the approximate size of the actual wound, now we are getting somewhere.
So next I investigated the properties of fabric after a bullet passed through and as I posted, in every example the hole was far less than the diameter of the bullet and in each case we see the familiar shredding as seen on Connally shirt. Ergo the bullet struck Connally's shirt while the bullet was yawing.

Mr. SPECTER - What did the wound of entry look like, Doctor?
Dr. GREGORY - It appeared to me that the wound of entry was sort of a linear wound, perhaps three-quarters of an inch in length with a rounded central portion. Whereas, the wound of exit was rather larger than this, perhaps an inch and a half across.











JohnM