On the Trail of Delusion, Episode 32, The Single-Bullet Theory Panel Discussion

[Benjamin Cole]

JM-

Thanks for your comments.

I am out for a couple days, will respond soon.

[David Von Pein]

[JBC's] first visible reaction is the sudden upward motion of his right arm at Z226.

That's not correct, John. Governor Connally's first visible signs of distress occur in Z225 (facial distortion; his mouth opens; and, most significant, the flinching shoulders--a surefire "reflex action" to an external stimulus).

[John Corbett]

JC-

Thanks for your comments.

Even if we ignore Jackie K's reaction, we see JFK at Z-226, obviously struck:

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z226.jpg

JBC is sitting bolt upright at Z-226. JBC's testimony is the shot that struck him in his back pushed him forward.

I will run with JBC's version of what happened to himself on this one. Witnesses can be in error, we all know that.

But JBC remembering receiving a blow in the back and getting pushed forward...that seems basic.

Hard to tell when JBC was struck, and the exact orientation of his torso. I concede all of that, which is why i say about Z-295. Might be later. The second gunsel was perhaps not in the TSBD.

JBC getting struck ~z-295 also lines up with many witnesses who heard a "bang.....bang-bang" cadence.

---

We are on different pages on this one, but that happens in JFKA discussions.

I respect your views, I just disagree.

Yes, JFK was hit by Z226. In fact, that is the moment he reacted by suddenly raising both arms. What you ignore is that is the same frame JBC suddenly flipped his right arm upward. What do you suppose caused him to do that. Was he anticipating getting shot. It seems quite a coincidence to me that both men would suddenly flip their arms upward simultaneously if they had not both been hit by the same bullet.

You are not going with JBC. He thought he was hit about Z230. He apparently bases that guess on seeing the reaction he remembers making upon being struck, which was a cognitive reaction. His involuntary reflexive action happened quicker and began a few frames earlier. He had no memory of flipping his arm upward. I think I remember reading somewhere that JBC didn't even know his wrist had been shattered until he came out of surgery, although I don't remember the source for that.

[John Corbett]

That's not correct, John. Governor Connally's first visible signs of distress occur in Z225 (facial distortion; his mouth opens; and, most significant, the flinching shoulders--a surefire "reflex action" to an external stimulus).

I supposed we could quibble about whether the movement in JBC's shoulders is a reaction to being shot or simply the force of the bullet driving it forward and downward. Ditto for the open mouth which could be air being driven forcefully from his lung. What is clear is we see both men's arms suddenly being raised at the same frame which is Z226.

[Duncan MacRae]

That's not correct, John. Governor Connally's first visible signs of distress occur in Z225 (facial distortion; his mouth opens; and, most significant, the flinching shoulders--a surefire "reflex action" to an external stimulus).

I would say the first visible sign of Connally in distress occurs at Zapruder Frame 223.

As well as a slight change in Connally's Facial expression, and Irrespective of Zapruder's Camera Jitter, you can see the gap space between his Jacket Lapel and his Neck Tie increase dramatically.

[John Corbett]

I would say the first visible sign of Connally in distress occurs at Zapruder Frame 223.

As well as a slight change in Connally's Facial expression, and Irrespective of Zapruder's Camera Jitter, you can see the gap space between his Jacket Lapel and his Neck Tie increase dramatically.

I think trying to read facial expressions with such a low resolution camera, even when the frames are enlarged, is an exercise in educated guessing. The movement of the shoulders at Z225 is a bit more pronounced but that could be the physical force of the bullet or it could be a reflexive response. Either seems plausible to me. JBC had started rotating his torso back toward the front just before the single bullet struck so his shoulders were already in motion when we see the dip at Z225. What is clear is that we see both men's arms start moving upward at Z226. I have no doubt this is a reflexive response to the single bullet. JBC's right arm continues in a rapid up and down movement that lasts for 9 frames, about a half second, before it disappears below the side of the car. I don't know how anybody can look at that and conclude anything but it being a reflexive response to the bullet hitting his wrist, especially given it is the same frame JFK's arms start upward.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

I would say the first visible sign of Connally in distress occurs at Zapruder Frame 223.
As well as a slight change in Connally's Facial expression, and Irrespective of Zapruder's Camera Jitter, you can see the gap space between his Jacket Lapel and his Neck Tie increase dramatically.

Yes that iz koz the slug struck at Z218, & the mini-lapel-flip iz a sign of the jacket bulge being well formed at that time (ie Z222)(ie 4 frames at 18.3 fps).
And the Z218 corresponds to Lattimer's bulge tests & hiz lapel flip (taken with his 30 fps still camera)(alltho Lattimer's slug landed at in effect Z219)(except that Lattimer's erroneous jacket (the lapel was very very long) & erroneous slug location (too high & allso the slug took a chunk out of the lapel) suggested that Z218 was the true number in 1963.
Z218 had jfk exaktly halfway along the sign (here i mean halfway along/throo the period where jfk dis-appears & re-appears).