Does Connally's wrist wound disprove the SBT?

[Royell Storing]

Dear Sonderführer Storing,

Unless one believes that oodles and gobs of Deep State bad guys were involved in the planning, the "patsy-ing," the planting of evidence, the shooting, the GETTING AWAY, and the all-important (and evidently ongoing!!!) cover up, an early missed shot and the SBT are the only logical explanations for what the witnesses heard, what the witnesses saw, what the photographers caught on film, what the police found on the 6th floor of the TSBD, the nature of the damage to the limousine, and the nature of the wounds that the doctors at Parkland and Bethesda dealt with.

D'oh

-- Tom

   "Logical Explanations" don't feed the bulldog.  The sudden appearance of the "getaway" car outside of the TSBD Proves a Conspiracy.

[Tom Graves]

"Logical explanations" don't feed the bulldog.  The sudden appearance of the "getaway" car outside of the TSBD proves a conspiracy.

LOL!

Good one!

[Andrew Mason]

…
an early missed shot and the SBT are the only logical explanations for what the witnesses heard, what the witnesses saw, what the photographers caught on film, what the police found on the 6th floor of the TSBD, the nature of the damage to the limousine, and the nature of the wounds that the doctors at Parkland and Bethesda dealt with.

How does an early missed shot or the SBT - neither of which are supported by witnesses, film, things found on the 6th floor, damage to the limo, or the wounds -  explain such evidence?

[Andrew Mason]

You hit the nail on the head. People have tried to rely too heavily on JBC’s account. It is understandable for the fellow politicians to give JBC the benefit of the doubt because that’s what politicians often do for each other.

It is one thing to not rely on JBC's account alone.  That's a reasonable thing to do.  But that doesn't mean that you then assume that it was wrong.

Let's look at some of what he said:

• He said that they had progressed 150-200 feet down Elm St. from the turn when the first shot sounded.   
  
• He said he turned around to his right to check on JFK after the first shot, which he did not feel but heard, and could not see him despite being very interested because he feared an assassination was unfolding. 
  
• He then felt, but did not hear, a second shot that struck him in the back and exited his chest and which he immediately thought was a fatal wound.
  
• JBC accepted Nellie Connally's recollection that JFK reacted to the first shot before the second shot. 
  
• He then heard and observed the effects of the third shot.
  

How does all this fit with other evidence?:

• First of all, estimates of distance are just that: estimates.  150-200 feet indicates a level of uncertainty of ±50 feet so he is, in effect saying 175 feet ±50 feet. So he is saying it appeared to him to be more than 125 feet and less than 225 feet. There is also some uncertainty as to exactly where he was measuring from, but let's assume it was from the red line here which is in line with the west side of Houston St.:
     
  My measurement from that line to the middle of the President's limo is 136 feet and the limo is in between the lamp post and the Thornton Freeway sign.  This also happens to be where the Secret Service video puts JFK when he is first completely clear of the oak tree when viewed from the SN:
  
  And then we have Mary Woodward who said that the first shot occurred as the President's limo just passed by her, or Gloria Calvery and Karen Westbrook who said that the President's car was "almost directly in front of where I was standing" when the first shot sounded".  Woodward was standing just west of the lamp post and Calvery and Westbrook were just west of Woodward, midway between the two lamp posts.  This also fits with occupants of the VP car who said that they had just completed the turn onto Elm and were heading to the triple overpass (it is still turning when last seen at z180). This also fits with occupants of the VP security car who said that their car had almost completed the turn and along side the TSBD when the first shot sounded. It is almost in that position when last seen in z190. It also fits with photographers Robert Croft and Hugh Betzner who put it a bit after z161 and just after z186 - and Linda Willis who said that JFK was between her and the Stemmons sign when the first shot sounded (which puts it between about z195-z203). 
  
• He said he turned around to his right to check on JFK after the first shot, which he did not feel but heard, and could not see him despite being very interested because he feared an assassination was unfolding. 
       We do not see JBC making any attempt to turn to look rearward prior to his turn that began at z228 or so and continued to about z278.  This fits with the observations of about 20 witnesses who said that JFK reacted immediately to the first shot by moving left/assuming a blank stare/bringing his hands to his chest/neck.  No one said he continued to smile and wave after the first shot.
• He makes no attempt to get down until about z278 when he begins to fall back onto Nellie.  His description of events does not fit with him being hit at z223 which was 3 seconds before falling back onto his wife.  On the other hand, we have the evidence of both Nellie and JBC who, in looking at frames of the zfilm picked z230-ish as the point at which they thought he looked like he had been shot. Nellie was not cross-examined on this about her recollection that she looked back at JFK before the second shot and saw him with his hands to his neck before the second shot.  She said she did not look back after the second shot.  She is turned facing rearward until about z270.
• While JBC accepted Nellie Connally's recollection that JFK reacted to the first shot before the second shot, she was only one of at least 20 other witnesses who recalled JFK reacting to the first shot. They are: T.E. Moore; Nellie Connally; David Powers; Gayle Newman; William Newman; John Chism; Faye Chism; James Altgens; Abraham Zapruder; Clint Hill; Linda Willis; George Hickey; Sam Kinney; Paul Landis; Cecil Ault; Harold Norman; Malcolm Summers; Mary Moorman; Jean Newman; Charles Brehm; Pierce Allman;
  
• While there is some suggestion that there was a shot after the head shot, the vast preponderance of evidence is that this was the third and last shot.
  

In the last snippet above I underlined an important distinction. JBC stated he had no doubt about only one aspect of that shooting sequence (the second shot struck him). JBC does not indicate that he has no doubt about the other aspects he outlined in that snippet. JBC has stated elsewhere that he could have been mistaken about the single bullet theory being wrong. If I find where I read that I will post it, I am still looking for it. With these things in mind, I think that the early missed shot is not disproved by JBC’s account.

There was a clip from an interview done a few years afterward in which he stated that it is possible that JFK was not hit on the first shot but that the best witness, Nellie Connally, disagreed with it and he agreed with her.

[Royell Storing]

It is one thing to not rely on JBC's account alone.  That's a reasonable thing to do.  But that doesn't mean that you then assume that it was wrong.

Let's look at some of what he said:

• He said that they had progressed 150-200 feet down Elm St. from the turn when the first shot sounded.   
  
• He said he turned around to his right to check on JFK after the first shot, which he did not feel but heard, and could not see him despite being very interested because he feared an assassination was unfolding. 
  
• He then felt, but did not hear, a second shot that struck him in the back and exited his chest and which he immediately thought was a fatal wound.
  
• JBC accepted Nellie Connally's recollection that JFK reacted to the first shot before the second shot. 
  
• He then heard and observed the effects of the third shot.
  

How does all this fit with other evidence?:

• First of all, estimates of distance are just that: estimates.  150-200 feet indicates a level of uncertainty of ±50 feet so he is, in effect saying 175 feet ±50 feet. So he is saying it appeared to him to be more than 125 feet and less than 225 feet. There is also some uncertainty as to exactly where he was measuring from, but let's assume it was from the red line here which is in line with the west side of Houston St.:
     
  My measurement from that line to the middle of the President's limo is 136 feet and the limo is in between the lamp post and the Thornton Freeway sign.  This also happens to be where the Secret Service video puts JFK when he is first completely clear of the oak tree when viewed from the SN:
  
  And then we have Mary Woodward who said that the first shot occurred as the President's limo just passed by her, or Gloria Calvery and Karen Westbrook who said that the President's car was "almost directly in front of where I was standing" when the first shot sounded".  Woodward was standing just west of the lamp post and Calvery and Westbrook were just west of Woodward, midway between the two lamp posts.  This also fits with occupants of the VP car who said that they had just completed the turn onto Elm and were heading to the triple overpass (it is still turning when last seen at z180). This also fits with occupants of the VP security car who said that their car had almost completed the turn and along side the TSBD when the first shot sounded. It is almost in that position when last seen in z190. It also fits with photographers Robert Croft and Hugh Betzner who put it a bit after z161 and just after z186 - and Linda Willis who said that JFK was between her and the Stemmons sign when the first shot sounded (which puts it between about z195-z203). 
  
• He said he turned around to his right to check on JFK after the first shot, which he did not feel but heard, and could not see him despite being very interested because he feared an assassination was unfolding. 
       We do not see JBC making any attempt to turn to look rearward prior to his turn that began at z228 or so and continued to about z278.  This fits with the observations of about 20 witnesses who said that JFK reacted immediately to the first shot by moving left/assuming a blank stare/bringing his hands to his chest/neck.  No one said he continued to smile and wave after the first shot.
• He makes no attempt to get down until about z278 when he begins to fall back onto Nellie.  His description of events does not fit with him being hit at z223 which was 3 seconds before falling back onto his wife.  On the other hand, we have the evidence of both Nellie and JBC who, in looking at frames of the zfilm picked z230-ish as the point at which they thought he looked like he had been shot. Nellie was not cross-examined on this about her recollection that she looked back at JFK before the second shot and saw him with his hands to his neck before the second shot.  She said she did not look back after the second shot.  She is turned facing rearward until about z270.
• While JBC accepted Nellie Connally's recollection that JFK reacted to the first shot before the second shot, she was only one of at least 20 other witnesses who recalled JFK reacting to the first shot. They are: T.E. Moore; Nellie Connally; David Powers; Gayle Newman; William Newman; John Chism; Faye Chism; James Altgens; Abraham Zapruder; Clint Hill; Linda Willis; George Hickey; Sam Kinney; Paul Landis; Cecil Ault; Harold Norman; Malcolm Summers; Mary Moorman; Jean Newman; Charles Brehm; Pierce Allman;
  
• While there is some suggestion that there was a shot after the head shot, the vast preponderance of evidence is that this was the third and last shot.
  

There was a clip from an interview done a few years afterward in which he stated that it is possible that JFK was not hit on the first shot but that the best witness, Nellie Connally, disagreed with it and he agreed with her.

     If you are going to steadfastly rely on Gov Connally's recollections, you have to accept the entirety of what he said. The SBT relies on Connally being seated inboard of JFK's seated position in the back seat. How, if Connally is allegedly sitting "inboard" of JFK, can Connally turn to his (R) and, "...not see him"? The "...not see him" fits only if JFK is seated Directly Behind Gov. Connally.

[Andrew Mason]

There was a clip from an interview done a few years afterward in which he stated that it is possible that JFK was not hit on the first shot but that the best witness, Nellie Connally, disagreed with it and he agreed with her.

The clip I was referring to was an interview by Walter Cronkite in 1967.  David Von Pein has it as part of his terrific collection of original material.  Check at about 1:20 of this clip.

[Andrew Mason]

     If you are going to steadfastly rely on Gov Connally's recollections, you have to accept the entirety of what he said.

That isn't actually correct.  Every judge will tell a jury that they may accept some, all or none of a witness' evidence but that they should look at the evidence not in isolation but in relation to all the other evidence.

The SBT relies on Connally being seated inboard of JFK's seated position in the back seat. How, if Connally is allegedly sitting "inboard" of JFK, can Connally turn to his (R) and, "...not see him"? The "...not see him" fits only if JFK is seated Directly Behind Gov. Connally.

I agree that the right-left trajectory through JFK's midline does not strike any where near JBC's right side, based on the positions of the two men seen in the zfilm at any time while on Elm St.  JFK was slightly right of JBC but not enough for the path through his neck to go right of JBC's spine, and certainly not at z222-225.  The argument, however, appears to be that the turn of JBC to see JFK is prior to z200.  Although JBC wanted desperately to see JFK, it appears that he forgot that he needed to turn his head relative to his shoulders to do so.