Is there any Prayer Man theory that makes any sense?

[Lance Payette]

I don’t think I’ve changed my position on Prayer Man since my very first post on the subject at the Ed Forum, where I simply asked how anyone could possibly believe PM could possibly be Oswald.

Yet, I respect Bart Kamp and Greg Parker and others who remain staunch PM advocates. (Everyone should be an advocate for the release of the original Darnell film if NBC still has it because – well, why not?)

If Oswald was PM, then the entire LN narrative is bogus. What I can’t get my brain around is any conspiracy in which Oswald the patsy was nevertheless allowed to be standing in full view on the TSBD steps, to be seen by everyone in the vicinity and to be photographed by anyone with a camera. It's pure chance that there aren't 50 clear photos of PM.

The only “justification” I ever got at the Ed Forum was from Sandy Larsen. His idea was that the conspirators were flexing their muscles, sending an in-your-face message. “We’re so completely in control that we don’t even care if our patsy is standing there in full view when he’s supposed to be up on the sixth floor shooting JFK.”

Now I see that Greg Doudna is positing that PM is Oswald in the process of escaping, or something like that. Oswald left his PM perch, went up to the second floor intending to go down the northwest stairs and exit out the rear of the TSBD, saw Baker, and ducked into the lunchroom just in time for the lunchroom encounter. What? Talk about ad hoc speculation.

Can anyone see a PM theory that isn’t fundamentally insane? Forget the mountain of evidence, such as the fact that no one on the steps who would obviously have seen Oswald remembered seeing him or that Oswald never screamed “For God’s sake, I was standing right there on the steps! Frazier and Shelley and Lovelady and everybody must’ve seen me!” Forget all that. I’m just curious as to what sort of conspiracy would have allowed Oswald the patsy to be standing on the steps in full view.

I’m genuinely puzzled that people who don’t seem completely off their rockers somehow manage to think PM is a viable theory. It’s one of those things like a Flat Earth where I once would have thought the proponents were just being silly and having fun, but this is clearly not the case. Some people I sort of respect have NO DOUBT!!! that PM is Oswald.

The most common refrain is, “Regardless of whether it makes sense to you, it’s a game-changer if that is Oswald.” Well, yes, of course, which is why even I would love to see the clearest version of the Darnell film. But if the likelihood that it’s Oswald is zero, as it seems to me to be, why do intelligent people entertain this fantasy?

What am I missing?

[Benjamin Cole]

LP--

You are not missing anything.

The "Prayer Man," and similar episodes, makes it embarrassing to be a part of the JFKA-CT community. 

There is not a singe eyewitness to LHO's whereabouts during the JFKA. The guy was invisible when shots rang out.

A good guess is LHO was in the TSBD6 sniper window. If not, then nearby, or somewhere else inside the bowels of the TSBD. It is possible he was lured somewhere out of view, on a ruse.

That the blurry photo, of what looks like a chubby woman, on the steps if the TSBD is in fact LHO is just silly.

Greg Doudna says that no passerby would have chosen that advantageous location to view the motorcade as it went by, thus ruling out all strangers or non-TSBD employees, or anyone else in the City of Dallas. Well, that settles that.

The Prayer Woman must be LHO.

[David Von Pein]

Archived "Prayer (Wo)Man" ramblings....

https://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/09/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1031.html

https://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2024/09/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1380.html#Prayer-Man-And-The-Darnell-Film

[Zeon Mason]

I conjured  this convoluted logic that the reason that Oswald said nothing  about being “out front watching the P.Parade” to his wife,mother, brother, or to the press when he had opportunity to  so, was because Oswald figured he could  take advantage of this opportunity on the world stage to be perceived as the accused man of the hour.
Oswald perhaps due to his delusions of grandeur, ( WC theory)erroneously calculated that he could wait until some later time when his trial was underway, to divulge this bombshell alibi which would exonerate him. After which, Oswald perhaps thought this would result in his good fortune as he would become the most famous wrongfully accused man of the 20th century. He would write a book, get interviews and be known as the  “Marxist” eccentric celebrity, possibly become wealthy.

But the 5’2” height of PM was a problem , even with the one foot on a lower step theory (which was never actually tried by an actual real person standing on the steps). Instead CTs resorted to computer graphics , which left the theory unproved.

Then when a newer version  of Darnell film was put out , supposedly the closest to the original film (where the original is IDK) , seems to show that Prayerman ito looked more like a woman with a flowery ring around the neck,

I really wanted to question if the newer version of Darnell film was  just more of the conspiracy cover up but I was soured by the leading advocate of the  PM theory (Alan Ford) , who declared that PM was not Oswald . Then Ford offered up the most bizarre new scenario of Oswald standing by the mailbox burning a flag and that Baker was running towards Oswald rather than to the TSBD front steps. 🙄

Since then, Ive decided that some CTs are looney tune propagandists.

Nevertheless, there are lots of problems with the WC timeline for Oswald and how that MC rifle could be heard by Harold Norman firing 3 shots in about 4 secs.  And how that 2/3rds majority ear witness seem to recall the last 2 shots as “back to back” or as close together as 1 sec apart.( reference Lee Bowers)

Then there is Dorothy Garner and whether she was out of the  4th floor office as early as 40 secs post shots or whether she waited until 70 secs post shots. We don’t know the answer to this because Barry Ernest failed to ask the question of Mrs Garner what EXACTLY did she hear when she was standing by the rear staircase just before she saw Baker and Truly.

So us skeptics must attempt  deductive speculation to  attempt to resolve what was the probable time of Mrs Garner exiting the 4th floor office.

My latest question is:  Why did not Mrs Garner hear  Truly shout up the elevator shaft at approx 70 secs post shots if she was alresdy standing near the rear staircase  and only about 15ft from the west open elevator shaft?

[Tom Graves]

I don’t think I’ve changed my position on Prayer Man since my very first post on the subject at the Ed Forum, where I simply asked how anyone could possibly believe PM could possibly be Oswald.

Yet, I respect Bart Kamp and Greg Parker and others who remain staunch PM advocates. (Everyone should be an advocate for the release of the original Darnell film if NBC still has it because – well, why not?)

If Oswald was PM, then the entire LN narrative is bogus. What I can’t get my brain around is any conspiracy in which Oswald the patsy was nevertheless allowed to be standing in full view on the TSBD steps, to be seen by everyone in the vicinity and to be photographed by anyone with a camera. It's pure chance that there aren't 50 clear photos of PM.

The only “justification” I ever got at the Ed Forum was from Sandy Larsen. His idea was that the conspirators were flexing their muscles, sending an in-your-face message. “We’re so completely in control that we don’t even care if our patsy is standing there in full view when he’s supposed to be up on the sixth floor shooting JFK.”

Now I see that Greg Doudna is positing that PM is Oswald in the process of escaping, or something like that. Oswald left his PM perch, went up to the second floor intending to go down the northwest stairs and exit out the rear of the TSBD, saw Baker, and ducked into the lunchroom just in time for the lunchroom encounter. What? Talk about ad hoc speculation.

Can anyone see a PM theory that isn’t fundamentally insane? Forget the mountain of evidence, such as the fact that no one on the steps who would obviously have seen Oswald remembered seeing him or that Oswald never screamed “For God’s sake, I was standing right there on the steps! Frazier and Shelley and Lovelady and everybody must’ve seen me!” Forget all that. I’m just curious as to what sort of conspiracy would have allowed Oswald the patsy to be standing on the steps in full view.

I’m genuinely puzzled that people who don’t seem completely off their rockers somehow manage to think PM is a viable theory. It’s one of those things like a Flat Earth where I once would have thought the proponents were just being silly and having fun, but this is clearly not the case. Some people I sort of respect have NO DOUBT!!! that PM is Oswald.

The most common refrain is, “Regardless of whether it makes sense to you, it’s a game-changer if that is Oswald.” Well, yes, of course, which is why even I would love to see the clearest version of the Darnell film. But if the likelihood that it’s Oswald is zero, as it seems to me to be, why do intelligent people entertain this fantasy?

What am I missing?

FWIW, they want to believe that the "vestibule" that a policeman (Baker?) allegedly told Postal Inspector Harry D. Holmes he had encountered Oswald in was the lobby inside the TSBD front door, not the enclosed space outside the second-floor lunchroom.

[Dan O'meara]

I lifted this image from the Prayer Man website years ago.
It may well be the image that sparked the PM theory,  based on Oswald's distinctive hairstyle (which is clearly a artifact of the 'fuzzy' distortion that can be seen throughout the image:



I'd forgotten how much dodgy photos are at the heart of the Prayer Man cult.

[Duncan MacRae]

Re: Is there any Prayer Man theory that makes any sense?

Yes, this one.

Prayer Woman

[Lance Payette]

Yes, this one.

So, in fact, LEE - or possibly HARVEY - changed clothes with Sarah Stanton - who was in on the conspiracy from day one - in the fifth-floor stairwell, and Sarah high-tailed it to the ladies' restroom, where a suitable change back to women's clothing had been in hidden in stall number two. She handed off LEE's clothing to HARVEY (or LEE, as the case may be), and HARVEY (or LEE, as the case may be) simply rappelled out the bathroom window (assuming there was one) on the rope that had been hidden above the light fixture, which Stanton then ... oh, I don't know. did something with. At last, I think it's starting to come together.

What I truly don't understand is that some of the PM enthusiasts seem to be among the most dedicated researchers. How do you dive this deeply into a theory and never step back and ask "WHAT AM I SAYING HERE? Have I completely lost it???" The same can be said of many conspiracy theories, but PM is about the most extreme example that occurs to me.