Was the Rifle that Lt. Day carried out of the TSBD the same as in evidence?

[Jack Nessan]

Apparently, Josephs and Griffiths have very limited knowledge of German firearms. First, that is not the barrel where the Mauser stamp is placed. That is the receiver. Second these 1933 model rifles with a Mauser stamp were a limited production for the Argentine Police and that was all, and they were not available in the US until 2005-06. LHO nor anyone else could not have possessed one in 1963. 

Josephs: “In the cropped statement from his supplemental report above BOONE tries to make it sound as if he left the film and did not remain at the Sheriff’s office for all these other activities when in reality it appears as if the finding of the rifle waited around for BOONE to arrive. But that gets ahead of ourselves. The following graphic shows the Mauser stamp and “7.65” on the barrel facing the same direction with the Carcano sans scope above it. The name Roger CRAIG does not appear in either man’s signed account. It’s hard to fathom Lt. DAY identifying this rifle as 6.5mm & Made in Italy based on its “markings”, given how clear the “MAUSER” and “7.65” are…” 

Total fabricated nonsense.

 

Whoever this Josephs individual is he royally messed it up and apparently has sucked M Griffith in with him as far as claiming the rifle had Mauser stamped on the barrel let alone it really was stamped on the receiver. 

You could not purchase a model 1933 rifle with Mauser stamped on the receiver in the US until 2005-06. LHO could not have purchased a model 1933 Mauser stamped rifle because they weren’t available for sale. Only 4000 were ever made and shipped to the Buenos Arias Provincial Police Force where they remained until 2005-06. The 1891 and 1909 Argentine rifles using a 7.65x53 Mauser cartridge were manufactured by the German manufacturers' DWM or Lowe Berlin not by Mauser. They in general are referred to as Argentine Mausers because of the cartridge they are chambered in not by the manufacturer.

In addition, the Modell 1933 standard model Mauser was chambered in the 7.92 x57 cartridge not the 7.65 x 53 cartridge.

 

[Lance Payette]

David Josephs is one of the most rabid True Believers in HARVEY AND LEE. He's practically on the H&L payroll.

How would a Mauser mesh with the HARVEY AND LEE narrative? The theory is that HARVEY was framed and that (I quote) "The rifle found on the 6th floor of the TSBD was an Italian made Mannlicher-Carcano, serial number C2766," https://harveyandlee.net/Mail_Order_Rifle/Mail_Order_Rifle.html.

As far as I can tell, the supposed Mauser is never even mentioned by Armstrong. The only mention is Malcolm Howard Price reporting a "Mauser-type" rifle at the Sports Drome Gun Range. The Mauser is also never mentioned in the massive, 100+ page "Evidence for Harvey and Lee" thread at the Ed Forum.

How would a Mauser in the TSBD advance the HARVEY AND LEE narrative?

Did David Josephs do all this work on the Mauser to advance some alternative theory? Is his motto "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)?

Or is this just another example of "We just want evidence of a conspiracy, regardless of whether it makes any sense in the context of our pet theory?"

For that matter, what the heck IS the conspiracy theory that a Mauser in the TSBD would advance?

[Paul May]

Griffith over the years has proven one thing: he’s the new Jim Fetzer.  These raging debates with Griffith will get you no place. “Six shots” Joseph is no different.

[John Mytton]

There has been some absolutely absurd nonsensical conspiracy theories but this has gotta be in the top ten!
Swapping out the rifle from the time it was found till it was taken from the building then swapped back when it was shown to the Press later that day goes nowhere and makes zero sense.

Anyway let's summarize.

Lt. Day confirms that he retained possession of Oswald's rifle from the moment it was found till he got back to Police headquarters.

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----

Lt. Day first to hold C2766.



Lt. Day carrying C2766 from the Depository.



The rifle being carried from the building is definitely the same make and model as Oswald's Carcano(C2766).



C2766 being displayed by Lt. Day to the Press at the DPD.



The evidence in the OP showing the many similarities in random scratches, scrapes and gouges on the rifle Lt. Day takes from the Depository and the rifle in evidence.



Josephs extremely dishonest graphical enhancement of the "CAL 6.5" decal on the rifle to enhance a barely legible "CAL 6.5" on the rifle in evidence.



BTW notice that Griffith keeps running from my question of WHY?, why on Earth would Day or anyone else for that matter feel the need to substitute a rifle that was photographed and filmed in situ on the 6th floor, with another rifle of the exact same make and model and then resubstitute it for the same rifle originally found on the 6th floor?
Where does this go?
How does this "deception" tie into the conspiracy?

Well Griffith, waiting......??

JohnM

[Benjamin Cole]

I agree.

I am a reluctant CT'er, but the whole Mauser-switch to M-C, switch to another M-C story line strains credulity.

At some point, the CT'ers began to challenge all evidence and every WC story line. That is good, and what a defense counsel should do.

But some evidence was real and some WC story lines hold water. Even more so for the HSCA.

I go so far to say that if you have a CT, it must accept HSCA findings as reasonably solid.

[Tim Nickerson]

Hey Tim, yeah I remember debating Josephs and after he had endless troubles defending his "ideas", he went for greener pastures where as long as you toe the line, everyone kisses each others ass!

And your examples made me laugh, it's reminds me of DiEugenio who claims that because no one at the post office remembers an 8 month old transaction then obviously Oswald never received the rifle! You can't make this $hit up!

I had a look at Josephs "The Mauser, the Carcano, and the Lt. Day Rifle" PDF and wow what a load of garbage.

1. Josephs alludes to the fact that because a 7.65 Mauser was "identified" that the rifle taken from the Depository was a Mauser but the photographic evidence is solid that the rifle was identical to Oswald's Carcano.



1a. A 7.65 Mauser while similar is different when directly compared and understandably in the darkness of the 6th floor a misidentification is excusable and I wasn't there but I doubt that the murder weapon was handed to each officer so they could closely examine it.



2. Josephs comparisons rely on images which have been heavily processed, for instance the following comparison comes from the primary source that Josephs links to and his extremely contrasted inverted misrepresentation is clear to see. The official image from the WC in extreme closeup can be barely seen and the 6.5 is not even visible hence Josephs compositing a 6.5 from another source and even with this overlay the 6 is virtually invisible. Also worth considering that there is probably some fingerprint dust on the rifle which would further obscure any detail.



JohnM

DiEugenio eh? He blocked me not long after this exchange.



They say that he's a top expert on all things to do with the JFK assassination. 

[Lance Payette]

At some point, the CT'ers began to challenge all evidence and every WC story line. That is good, and what a defense counsel should do.

But a defense counsel doesn't have to prove anything. He doesn't have to have a coherent theory as to what occurred. He just has to sling the sh*t, wacky and inconsistent as it may be, and hope some tiny piece resonates with at least one juror.

I'm still trying to get my mind around what sort of conspiracy would have left a Mauser on the 6th floor of the TSBD?