How Did Bart Kamp Create The Lovelady Image?

[Royell Storing]

   You also have to move Lovelady and Shelley from their standing position in front of the TSBD. This is Not all about Calvery. You are claiming 3 moving pieces + a conversation in only 20 seconds.
   Are you claiming that after hearing shots fired, Officer Baker then just stood there listening to his motorcycle radio? Seriously? 

[Tom Graves]

You also have to move Lovelady and Shelley from their standing position in front of the TSBD. This is not all about Calvery. You are claiming three moving pieces and a conversation in only twenty seconds.
 

Dear Royell,

Perhaps you missed it:

1) If long-legged Gloria Calvery (who was standing to the immediate left of John Templin in the Zapruder film and who had just seen JFK's head get blown off) ran, how many seconds do you think it took her to reach "the island"?

2) Didn't Officer Baker listen to his radio and look down towards the Triple Underpass before he started running towards the TSBD steps?

3) Mark Tyler has Officer Baker running in front of your "Abandoned Getaway Car" about 27 seconds after the final shot.

https://www.marktyler.org/mc63.html?fbclid=IwY2xjawK4zONleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFFODdsRHVIa2RSUGZJNllFAR6Zx-0JB5zBmwy-qakJKtfLfY5vcW9V2IqOrNXjP-oezkHhb-av38NlRUa-uA_aem_2d95NRPz2dpt6k_03l7iYg

-- Tom

[Tom Graves]

You see Officer Baker there [in Darnell]? Baker's timeline is that he was inside the TSBD 30 seconds after the kill shot. This means what we are seeing on this Couch still frame is happening roughly 20 seconds after the kill shot. 20 seconds is simply not enough time for Calvery to move down [sic] the Elm St sidewalk, talk with Shelley and Lovelady, and then for Shelley and Lovelady to begin walking down the Elm Street Extension. Now, if you want to change the 62+ yr old time stamping of DPD Officer Baker, I would be interested in hearing that.

Dear Royell,

I refer you to the Warren Commission testimony of Marrion L. Baker

Page 248

Mr. BELIN. After you parked your motorcycle, did you notice anything that was going on in the area?

Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir. As I parked here ---

Mr. BEIJN. You are pointing on Exhibit 361 to the place that you have marked with “B.”

Mr. BAKER. And I was looking westward which would be in this direction.

Mr. BELIN. By that, you are pointing down the entrance to the freeway and kind of what I will call the peninsula of the park there?

Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Toward the triple underpass.

Representative Boggs. Where is the underpass?

Mr. BAKER. The underpass is down here. This is really Elm Street, and this would be Main and Commerce and they all come together here, and there is a triple overpass.

Representative Boggs. Right.

Mr. BAKER.  At this point, I looked down here as I was parking my motorcycle and these people on this ground here, on the sidewalk, there were several of them falling, and they were rolling around down there, and all these people were rushing back, a lot of them were grabbing their children, and I noticed one, I didn’t know who he was, but there was a man who ran out into the crowd and back.

Mr. BELIN. Did you notice anything else?

Mr. BAKER. Except there was a woman standing --- well, all these people were running, and there was a woman [Gloria Calvery?] screaming, “Oh, they have shot that man, they have shot that man.”

Mr. BELIN. All right. Now, you are on Exhibit 361, and you are pointing to people along the area or bordering the entrance to that expressway and that bit of land lying to the west and north, as to where you describe these people, is that correct?

Mr. BAKER. That is correct, sir.

Mr. DULLES. Would you mark where the overpass would be, right at the end of those lines, just so we get oriented on it.

Mr. BELIN. I am trying to see down here.

Mr. DULLES. I just wanted to get a general idea.

Mr. BELIN. On Exhibit 361, sir, it wouldn’t show but it basically would be off in this direction coming down this way. The entrance to the freeway would go down here and the overpass would roughly be down here.

Mr. DULLES. As far as that?

Mr. BELIN. Yes, sir; I think Mr. Redlich is going to get a picture that will better describe it.

Mr. DULLES. All right.

Mr. BELIN. All right. Is there anything else you saw there, Officer Baker, before you ran to the building?

Mr. BAKER. No, sir; not at that time.

Mr. BELIN. All right. Then what did you do after surveying the situation?

Mr. BAKER. I had it in mind that the shots came from the top of this building here.

Mr. BELIN. By this building, you are referring to what?

Mr. BAKER. The Book Depository Building.

. . .  . .  .  .

Page 259

Mr. Baker. And then I ran, kind of running walk, and went all the way around [the TSBD roof]. First, I glanced over this side here, because the last thing I heard here on the radio was the Chief saying, “Get some men up on that railroad track.”

Mr. BELIN. Did you hear that on your police radio?

Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir; that was the last thing I heard.

Mr. BELIN. As you were getting off your motorcycle?

Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.

. . . . . .

Page 266

Mr. BELIN. All right. Did any other officer say anything to you about what he saw or thought what happened?

Mr. BAKER. I talked to several of them, but I can’t remember exactly, you know, just what their story was.

Mr. BELIN. Was there anyone you talked to who thought the shots came from the front?

Mr. BAKER. No, sir; not except that the Chief of Police, that is the only one. Now, that, like I say, that is the last thing I heard over that radio is, “Get some men up on that railroad [sic].” Now, that could mean they either came from the side, which is due north, or right across in front of him. You know-

Mr. BELIN. Well, apart from the statement you testified to that the Chief of Police made over the radio about the underpass, was there any policeman or patrolman who was in the motorcade who in any way indicated to you that the shots came from the front?

Mr. BAKER. No, sir.

. . . . . . .

My comments:

About 35 seconds after the final shot (i.e., about the time Baker was entering the TSBD according to Mark Tyler), Chief of Police Curry said over the radio, “Get men on top of that over . . . underpass. See what happened up there. Go up to the overpass.”

. . . . . .
 

Of course, having Officer Baker enter the TSBD at a later point in time, also then changes when Baker confronts Oswald inside the TSBD 2nd floor lunchroom. And the later you put Baker on the stairwell inside the TSBD, the better the chance that Sandra Styles & Vicki Adams had completed coming down that same stairwell before Baker's even reached it.

Not if Baker entered the TSBD about 35 seconds after the final shot, and not if Adams underestimated by about thirty seconds the length of time she and Styles spent on the fourth floor before starting down. That way, Oswald, Baker and Truly could have been inside the lunchroom or its "vestibule" when Adams and Styles were transiting the North-West corner of the second floor.

This would then bolster the Adams/Styles claim of not hearing Oswald coming down that same stairwell from the 6th floor sniper's nest.

Correct.

-- Tom

[Royell Storing]

   The above is indicative of why some people chose to use a shotgun. It randomly throws stuff all over the place. If you want an extra 5 seconds, you still need 25 seconds to: (1) Put Calvery, Lovelady, & Shelley in motion, (2) Have the 3 converge),  (3) They then converse, and, (4) Shelley and Lovelady begin moving down the Elm St Ext. (For whatever reason). Still not possible.
    With respect to "Oh they have shot that man, they have shot that man". That general verbiage is referenced by Witt/Umbrella Man in his HSCA Testimony. Except Witt says it was being repeated by a lady somewhere BEHIND him. Witt and The Cuban were sitting on the retaining wall at this point in time. Behind the 2 of them was The Knoll. Do you still want to Speculate that this was Calvery saying this? This is why a broad JFK Assassination Foundation is critical. Do your research. It is a time consuming Brick-By-Brick journey. But well worth the effort.
    You Speculate that Calvery, Shelley, & Lovelady held their "Pow-Wow" on the Island. So I am guessing this would be on the very corner of the Island. About where Officer Baker ran across the Island? This would also place the 3 of them in front of the "getaway" car, just like Baker was. So, in order for Shelley and Lovelady to then be filmed walking down the Elm St Extension, they would 1st have to walk around the front of the "getaway" car and then move down the Elm St. Ext. Why wouldn't Shelley and Lovelady instead proceed in a straight line from the corner of the Island and then walk passed the front and back passenger doors of the "getaway" car? Why would they go out of their way to walk around the front of the "getaway" car and then proceed down the Elm Ext?  Maybe you now want to move that "Pow-Wow" to being conducted in front of the TSBD? Of course, there is precious Tick/Tock involved with this relocation. 

[Tom Graves]

Even if your scenario is given another five seconds, it still doesn't have the twenty-five seconds it needs to: 1) have Calvery, Shelley, and Lovelady converge and converse, and 2) have Shelley and Lovelady begin moving down Elm Street Extension.

Dear Royell,

Calvery was only about fifty yards from the "island" during the motorcade and could have gotten to it in ten or twelve seconds. Shelley, who was on the steps and had been best man at Calvery's wedding, could have heard her bellowing, and, with Lovelady, intercepted her on-or-near the "island." After a five-second "pow-wow" between those three, there was plenty of time left in my scenario for 1) Shelley and Lovelady to get as far down Elm Street Extension as we see them in Couch-Darnell, and 2) for Calvery to get to the TSBD steps in time to be "captured" there in Darnell.

-- Tom

With respect to "Oh they have shot that man, they have shot that man," that general verbiage is referenced by Witt/Umbrella Man in his HSCA Testimony. Except Witt says it was being repeated by a lady somewhere behind him. Witt and The Cuban were sitting on the retaining wall at this point in time. Behind the two of them was The Grassy Knoll. Do you still want to speculate that this was Calvery saying this?

Dear Royell,

The only reason I included that part of Baker's testimony is to disprove your statement that he ran immediately to the TSBD upon parking his motorcycle. Heck, he even testified that he was still at his motorcycle when he heard Police Chief Curry say twenty-seven seconds after the final shot, "Get someone up on the [triple] underpass (aka "the railroad track" in Baker's terminology).

-- Tom

You speculate that Calvery, Shelley, and Lovelady held their "pow-wow" on the "island." I'm guessing this would be on the very corner of the "island," about where Officer Baker ran across it. This would also place the three of them in front of the "getaway" car, just like Baker was. So, in order for Shelley and Lovelady to then be filmed walking down the Elm St Extension, they would first have to walk around the front of the "getaway" car and then move down the Elm Street Extension. Why wouldn't Shelley and Lovelady instead proceed in a straight line from the corner of the "island" and then walk past the front and back passenger doors of the "getaway" car? Why would they go out of their way to walk around the front of the "getaway" car and then proceed down the Elm Street Extension?

Dear Royell,

You assume that Shelley and Lovelady had already decided -- before hearing from Calvery on-or-near the "island" that JFK had been shot -- to walk down to the railway yard / parking lot.

Why do you assume that?

-- Tom


Note: The above has been translated from Storing Speak into intelligible English.

[Royell Storing]

  There is no evidence that Calvery was "bellowing".
   You did not address why Shelley and Lovelady would walk around the front of the "getaway" car and then be on the driver's side of the "getaway" car vs merely walking directly toward  the railroad yard/alongside the Passenger doors of the car. It makes no sense for them to go from the Island to the Driver's side of the car. 

[Tom Graves]

There is no evidence that Calvery was "bellowing."

Dear Royell,

Okay, how about "hollerin'", then?

Isn't that what they do in your neck of the woods?

You did not address why Shelley and Lovelady would walk around the front of the "getaway" car and then be on the driver's side of the "getaway" car vs merely walking directly toward the railroad yard/alongside the Passenger doors of the car. It makes no sense for them to go from the Island to the Driver's side of the car.

 
Dear Royell,

Since big and tall and red-haired (and therefore easy-to-spot) Calvery was within 10 to 12 seconds of the "island" and was bookin' it to the TSBD, Shelley and his sidekick, Lovelady, may have intercepted her in "the middle of" Elm Street Extension, itself.

Does that work for you?

-- Tom

[Royell Storing]

Dear Royell,

Okay, how about "hollerin'", then?

Isn't that what they do in your neck of the woods?
 
Dear Royell,

Since big and tall and red-haired (and therefore easy-to-spot) Calvery was within 10 to 12 seconds of the "island" and was bookin' it to the TSBD, Shelley and his sidekick, Lovelady, may have intercepted her in "the middle of" Elm Street Extension, itself.

Does that work for you?

-- Tom

   The above is proof of your trying "this and that" in order to make it work. That's not evidence. What you're doing is like a kid screwing around with a chemistry set and ending up with a stink bomb.