3D Modeling of the Alleged Shelley and Lovelady Walking on the Elm Extension

[James Hackerott]

James,

Was Arce wearing a suit that day, as the "Shelley" figure appears to be doing in the enlarged high-rez frame and the cropped-and-enhanced frames from Couch-Darnell that you can see by scrolling down a bit in this article at a certain website?

http://www.prayer-man.com/tsbd/billy-nolan-lovelady/

-- Tom

No, but if youi hum a few bars.....
Actually, I've always looked at Arce wearing a long dress coat. I doubt he would be wearing a suit jacket but I don't know. The Couch images from your link shows the "Shelley" figure that could be wearing such a coat or possibly a suit jacket. No way to be sure, in my opinion.

Tom, I'm not sucking up but want to take this oppertunity to thank you for the work you, Larson and one ther fellow IIRC for solving the "Dog's Breakfast Identifications" of Calvery, Stemmons sign women and more along the north side of Elm. You don't get enough credit for that work. However, for this Shelley walking down the Elm St. extension I can't buy into. I believe the heights measured are the "Elephant In The Room" for the Darnell and Shelley walking west on the extension theory. One more rant. When Gerda first published the Couch (or Darnell) animation she captioned it as "Shelley and Darnell?", or maybe (Darnell and Shelley?)-I did not save that image. That was the only time I recall Gerda wavering on an identification. We never see that image posted, to my knowledge. 

If you can come up with a explaination for the "5'6" Shelley appearing ~2-3" taller than 5'8.5" Lovelady height difference I'm posting let me know.

James

[James Hackerott]

Where do you get that Shelley was 5'6”?

From the first graphic in my post. That 3D scene was matched to overlay the authentic image of the guys. I match the 3D scene by tedius placement of the camera, backgound, field of view and line of sight. It can take a day of trial and error to get a good fit. Then I can place meauring sticks where I need a measurement  from the model. It's a simplistic photogrammetry determination.

 

[Lance Payette]

So Bart Kamp at Prayer Man has faked the enhanced images CLEARLY showing Lovelady in the sidewalk photos? Really?

http://www.prayer-man.com/bill-shelley-and-billy-lovelady-in-the-couch-film/

I see that the late Robert Prudhomme was once on a crusade to establish Shelley's height. I don't know whether anyone ever did, but the consensus seemed to be that he was about 5'9".

Nothing is simple in the JFKA. Prudhomme contacted a journalist who had known Shelley and got this back:

"Your question about Bill Shelley's height is difficult to answer. At the time I met Shelley in the early 1970's, he was perhaps 5-5 or 5-6. However, he told an employee (TSBD employee?) he was once two inches taller. According to the employee, Shelley claimed he broke his back in a car accident sometime after the assassination. Subsequent surgery supposedly left him two inches shorter. Shelley never mentioned the car accident in my presence, but the employee was a reliable source and Shelley's claim would have been plausible. Moreover, I recall Shelley was slightly misshaped as if he had indeed lost a couple of inches of height above the hips."

[Tim Nickerson]

From the first graphic in my post. That 3D scene was matched to overlay the authentic image of the guys. I match the 3D scene by tedius placement of the camera, backgound, field of view and line of sight. It can take a day of trial and error to get a good fit. Then I can place meauring sticks where I need a measurement  from the model. It's a simplistic photogrammetry determination.

So, you're experienced in applying photogrammetry? My own photographic analysis expertise is next to nothing. I had to ask because I recall reading that someone who knew Shelley said that he was taller than Lovelady. I think it was Buell Frazier. Are you sure about the heights of the others?

[Tim Nickerson]

So Bart Kamp at Prayer Man has faked the enhanced images CLEARLY showing Lovelady in the sidewalk photos? Really?

http://www.prayer-man.com/bill-shelley-and-billy-lovelady-in-the-couch-film/

I see that the late Robert Prudhomme was once on a crusade to establish Shelley's height. I don't know whether anyone ever did, but the consensus seemed to be that he was about 5'9".

The late Robert Prudhomme?    Must have been very recently. I think that he blocked me on Facebook just in the last month.

[James Hackerott]

So, you're experienced in applying photogrammetry? My own photographic analysis expertise is next to nothing. I had to ask because I recall reading that someone who knew Shelley said that he was taller than Lovelady. I think it was Buell Frazier. Are you sure about the heights of the others?

Tim, my experience with photogrammetry is limited to doing the work I've done with my 3D model. I have no training with the technique. But I do try to match the photographic parameters to the degree my renderings "snap" onto the reference image without any use of photo editors (resizing, stretching, rotations etc). There are some pitfalls though. I "assume" the reference image has not been cropped such that the true point of view is not shifted due to assymetric cropping. Image aspect ratios can be a real headache too.

[Lance Payette]

Your Intrepid Reporter sees that the idea that Lovelady was 5'8" comes from an FBI report where his height is stated based on "interrogation and observations."

However, Lovelady told a NY reporter in 1964 that he was some 3" shorter than Oswald, which would make him 5'6".

"Mr. Lovelady said the F.B.I. had taken pictures of him from various angles and that he had been shown a three-by-four-foot blowup of the doorway picture and asked if he was in it. ‘I immediately pointed to myself in the doorway,’ Mr. Lovelady said. He said he was about 15 to 20 pounds heavier than Oswald and about three inches shorter. Asked whether there was any resemblance to Oswald, he replied, ‘I’m fatter in the face.' 'It was me in the doorway,’ he said. ‘If anyone doesn’t believe it, they will just have to take my word.’  (5-24-64 article by Dom Bonafede in The New York Herald-Tribune)."

Whatever. What can anyone do but laugh at this stuff? It's all a Rorschach test. You're all pretending at some sort of certainty on the basis of what is almost entirely guesswork.