Lovelady in Darnell and it's Ramifications.

[Tom Graves]

They re-created and timed what happened and it took her approximately two minutes to reach the office.

Mr. BELIN. And when in Dallas, we started the stopwatch from the time that the last shot was fired, is that correct?
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. And then you went through your actions, what you saw, your conversations that you had, and your actions in going back into the building and up to the point that you saw Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember how long by the stopwatch it took you?
Mrs. REID. Approximately 2 minutes.
Mr. DULLES. I didn't hear you.
Mrs. REID. Two minutes.
Mr. BELIN. From the time of the last shot the time you and Oswald crossed?
Mrs. REID. Yes; I believe that is the way we timed it.

IIRC, she spoke with Ochus Campbell for a while in front of the TSBD before reentering the building and going upstairs to her office.

[Zeon Mason]

They re-created and timed what happened and it took her approximately two minutes to reach the office.

Mr. BELIN. And when in Dallas, we started the stopwatch from the time that the last shot was fired, is that correct?
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. And then you went through your actions, what you saw, your conversations that you had, and your actions in going back into the building and up to the point that you saw Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember how long by the stopwatch it took you?
Mrs. REID. Approximately 2 minutes.
Mr. DULLES. I didn't hear you.
Mrs. REID. Two minutes.
Mr. BELIN. From the time of the last shot the time you and Oswald crossed?
Mrs. REID. Yes; I believe that is the way we timed it.

Mrs Reid did not use the stopwatch. Belin had control of the watch. That line about conversations she had and her actions are just BS to distract from the actual distance/time calculation. If Mrs Reid is running THE ENTIRE TIME then she’s NOT stopping to chit chat, or adjust her dress or comb her hair or whatever the“actions” means. SHE SAID SHE WAS RUNNING THE ENTIRE TIME!

If she’s stopping here and there and talking with people, and bending down to get a quarter or stopped at the passenger elevator or whatever, then that should have been written down in a statement and the WC testimony should explain ( which it does not)

A brief conversation with Mr. Campbell was mentioned but he ran off quickly if he was able see  the limo go thru the Triple underpass so that’s maybe 5 secs and then Reid sees people dropping the ground.which prompted her to go inside the TSBD.

What accounts for the whole extra minute?

[Dan O'meara]

           When you say, "ALL films were altered...", that takes in a lot of territory. What specific films are you referring to?
Does the "Removal" of film frames meet your definition of "Alter"? Do frames being "juggled" and "displayed out-of-order" meet your definition of "altered"? You Know that the "juggling" of Z Film Frames was already done very early on. Does the "cropping" of an image(s) meet your definition of Altered?

??
No films were altered.
If a couple of frames were lost or damaged, this is not alteration.
Alteration specifically implies DELIBERATE manipulation of a film to change the viewers perception.
THIS DID NOT HAPPEN TO ANY FILM OR PHOTOGRAPH
In particular, the Z-film was not altered as you suggest.
You seem to be unaware that the Z-film actually shows the limo slowing down to a walking pace before the headshot.

It is YOU who is suggesting films were altered.
Not me.

The Wiegman Film was ballyhoo'd as being "filmed continuously" for its' initial 30+yrs. When the application of a false timeline is assigned to a film, does that then make that film an "altered" film? The timeline issue with the Wiegman Film goes directly to his filming the JFK Limo going under the Triple Underpass, and Wiegman claiming to have seen SA Lem John UP-THE-KNOLL, ("Pictures Of The Pain"), when Wiegman ran up there. SA Lem Johns allegedly jumped out of the LBJ SS Car, and then ran up Elm St toward the JFK Limo. There are No Images of SA Lem Johns physically being on Elm St, or running up Elm St toward the JFK Limo. No Eyewitness has ever said they saw SA Lem Johns jump out of the LBJ SS Car or saw him running up Elm St. And no agents were allegedly assigned to a ground position inside Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63. Yet, here we have Wiegman seeing SA Lem Johns Up-The-Knoll. 
           You say the time stamping is "no more than 30 seconds". The opening of the Darnell Film shows the driver of Camera Car #2 to be standing flatfooted outside of Camera Car #2. This is BEFORE we see Officer Baker running across the Island at :20 seconds after the kill shot. So, do You believe this driver was already standing outside of his car only :10 seconds after the kill shot? Draw on your personal life experience as to when you have seen a driver climb outside of their car in bumper-to-bumper traffic. The Officer Baker timeline of :20 seconds after the kill shot to cross the Island, and then :30 seconds after the kill shot to enter the TSBD is Wrong. These Early/False timelines were assigned to rig when Officer Baker saw Oswald on the other side of the vestibule door leading into the TSBD 2nd Floor Lunchroom.   

There are too many false leads to follow up here.
Too many suppositions on your behalf.
I would like to deal with a point that gets to the heart of the matter:

"The opening of the Darnell Film shows the driver of Camera Car #2 to be standing flatfooted outside of Camera Car #2. This is BEFORE we see Officer Baker running across the Island at :20 seconds after the kill shot. So, do You believe this driver was already standing outside of his car only :10 seconds after the kill shot?"

I've watched the Couch/Darnell footage.
Can you link me to the image of the flatfooted driver outside of Camera #2

[Royell Storing]

??
No films were altered.
If a couple of frames were lost or damaged, this is not alteration.
Alteration specifically implies DELIBERATE manipulation of a film to change the viewers perception.
THIS DID NOT HAPPEN TO ANY FILM OR PHOTOGRAPH
In particular, the Z-film was not altered as you suggest.
You seem to be unaware that the Z-film actually shows the limo slowing down to a walking pace before the headshot.

It is YOU who is suggesting films were altered.
Not me.

There are too many false leads to follow up here.
Too many suppositions on your behalf.
I would like to deal with a point that gets to the heart of the matter:

"The opening of the Darnell Film shows the driver of Camera Car #2 to be standing flatfooted outside of Camera Car #2. This is BEFORE we see Officer Baker running across the Island at :20 seconds after the kill shot. So, do You believe this driver was already standing outside of his car only :10 seconds after the kill shot?"

I've watched the Couch/Darnell footage.
Can you link me to the image of the flatfooted driver outside of Camera #2

                          You obviously have not examined the NBC/Sixth Floor Museum's 1st generation copy of the opening :20 seconds of the Darnell Film. The driver standing outside of the camera car is on the opening frames of this Darnell Film snippet.
 

                                                                          - Go to YOU TUBE and search -

                         "NBC 5 Archive Collection | Assassination Aftermath in Dealey Plaza | Darnell Film"    by - SixthFloorMuseum  (:44)

[Dan O'meara]

                          You obviously have not examined the NBC/Sixth Floor Museum's 1st generation copy of the opening :20 seconds of the Darnell Film. The driver standing outside of the camera car is on the opening frames of this Darnell Film snippet.
 

                                                                          - Go to YOU TUBE and search -

                         "NBC 5 Archive Collection | Assassination Aftermath in Dealey Plaza | Darnell Film"    by - SixthFloorMuseum  (:44)

Here is the very opening frame of that Darnell footage and there is your man, flat-footed as you stated:



I am going to start another thread based on an analysis of this frame. I am convinced there must be information in this frame from which we can determine how long after the headshot the Darnell footage started. This will then determine how quickly Baker arrived at the TSBD building steps.
I'm sure this kind of analysis has been attempted before but I'd like to give it a go.
There are many films and photos taken in the immediate aftermath of the shooting and it would be interesting to see if a detailed timeline can be determined from them.

[Royell Storing]

From Vicki's Feb '64 interview with Jim Leavelle,   

"Then the second shot I saw the Secret Service man run to the back of the President's car. After the third shot I went out the back door. I said, 'I think someone has been shot.' The elevator was not running and there was no one on the stairs. I went down to the first floor. I saw Mr. Shelly and another employee named Bill."

Until Barry Ernest, Vicki is consistent that she left the fourth floor within seconds of the shooting. She ran all the way down the stairs and out the north loading dock door. She was on the first floor approximately 60 seconds after the last shot and saw Lovelady and Shelley near the elevators on the first floor.
The WC Sham used the easily disprovable lies of Shelley and Lovelady to discredit Vicki's account of her descent from the fourth floor. Even though these lies flatly contradicted the time trials conducted by the Sham involving Baker and Truly (something Vicki's account did not do).
So, let's take Vicki at her word and see where that takes us.

1] The pic taken by Tom Dillard approximately 10 - 15 seconds after the head shot showing the empty 4th floor window where Vicki and her colleagues makes sense. Vicki had decided to head downstairs before the limo had even reached the underpass. She and Sandra have raced off followed by Garner. which is why the window is empty seconds after the shooting.

2] The Stroud document makes sense. The only way Vicki and Sandra could make it down the stairs before Truly and Baker came up the same stairs, without either party encountering the other, is for Vicki to head off within in seconds of the head shot, race all the way down and be through the loading dock door before Truly and Baker reached the area near the elevators.

3] Baker's observation of two white men in the area near the elevators makes sense as being Shelley and Lovelady.

4] The affidavits of Shelley and Lovelady make sense. When taken at face value, the two men never made their way along the Elm St Ext., never hung around the railroad yards and never re-entered the building through the west door. After Shelley ran across the street and returned, both men immediately re-entered the TSBD building and made their way toward the back of the first floor where they were seen by Adams and Lovelady.

5] The Baker/Truly time trials make sense. The 3 minute lie, told by both Shelley and Truly can now be ignored. Baker and Truly were not still outside the building over 3 minutes after the shooting.

6] The Darnell footage makes sense. It confirms that Baker had arrived at the bottom of the steps within a few seconds of the shots supporting the time trials and refuting the lies of Shelley and Lovelady. It confirms the accounts of both Lovelady and Frazier regarding Gloria returning to the steps and telling everyone about the shooting.

This still from Darnell shows the moment Gloria is interacting with Lovelady on the steps. Shelley has just returned from across the street. This image is taken around 30 seconds after the head shot. Vicki is already on the stairs. Baker, Truly, Shelley and Lovelady are all about to enter the lobby. Shelley and Lovelady immediately make their way to the back of the first floor followed seconds later by Truly and Baker.




If we accept Vicki's version of events there are two questions that need answering:

Why did Shelley and Lovelady lie about their movements in the immediate aftermath of the shooting?
Why did they feel the need to race toward the back of the first floor?

    DAN - This is 1 of the Top Threads ever put together on this Forum. I thought with your currently delving into the Darnell Film Timeline Issue, it tied in well.