Lovelady in Darnell and it's Ramifications.

[Zeon Mason]

The TSBD front entrance door swings both ways so it was probably swung inwards if a lot of people were going in along with Baker.

There might be an issue with the front desk area by Truly office as a bottleneck because it required a part of the counter top to be swung open but I’m not certain if it was locked or not. Probably was not,  as Truly would be fumbling for a key.

None the less, it was closed when Truly got there and he had to open it so he and Baker could go thru. It’s in Truly WC testimony somewhere about them getting delayed at this countertop area by Trulys office.

This might explain the gap of time between Lovelady/Shelley seeing Adams and Styles going past the elevators while Truly/Baker did not.

[Royell Storing]

The TSBD front entrance door swings both ways so it was probably swung inwards if a lot of people were going in along with Baker.

There might be an issue with the front desk area by Truly office as a bottleneck because it required a part of the counter top to be swung open but I’m not certain if it was locked or not. Probably was not,  as Truly would be fumbling for a key.

None the less, it was closed when Truly got there and he had to open it so he and Baker could go thru. It’s in Truly WC testimony somewhere about them getting delayed at this countertop area by Trulys office.

This might explain the gap of time between Lovelady/Shelley seeing Adams and Styles going past the elevators while Truly/Baker did not.

   Based on the accepted timeline, Lovelady/Shelley have :35 to get back to the far corner/Stairwell on the TSBD 1st Floor. And Lovelady is Not even facing the TSBD at the beginning of this :35 second mark. If I am to accept they went through the TSBD front door, the timelines have to be reset/extended. I do Not believe we are seeing Officer Baker running across the Island at :20 Seconds after the kill shot. These timelines have been Quickened/Manipulated in order for Officer Baker to glimpse Oswald on the other side of the vestibule door leading into the 2nd Floor lunchroom.

[Royell Storing]

Your only counter-argument is that Baker should have seen Shelley and Lovelady ahead of him??
You seem to imagine that the first floor is a wide open, empty space.
It's nothing of the sort.
You also seem to imagine that everyone travelled in the same straight, diagonal line that led directly from the entrance of the first floor to the elevators. (What makes you think they travelled in a diagonal line anyway?)
I can't help it if you have no idea how cluttered this space was.
At least you've grasped the concept that Shelley and Lovelady could just move into this space while Baker and Truly were interacting in the lobby.
As I said, it's not a difficult concept to grasp.
Your counter-argument is really weak which is very telling.
You are having a problem visualising what is happening because you imagine the first floor to be empty. Once you grasp how cluttered it was it might become clear why Baker didn't see Shelley and Lovelady near the back of the first floor.



So, that's your main counter-argument dealt with.
What else do you have?

Also, why would Lovelady/Shelley want to go to the freight elevators and then just lay around there?


Lay around there?
What are you talking about?
What are you imagining?
That the first floor is this wide open, empty space with a few hammocks in it?
It's hard to discuss these issues with someone who can't grasp the basic realities of the situation.
What makes it even harder is that you never pay attention to what anyone else is posting.
Look back a few Replies and you'll see I posted this:

The question is - what were they up to?

What were they covering up?

What is there, towards the back of the first floor, that could be so important?

It has been demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that Shelley and Lovelady lied about their movements.
The lied to cover up their real movements.
They lied to cover up the fact that they immediately made their way towards the back of the first floor where they were seen by Adams and Baker.
That they lied is not up for debate.

My opinion is that Adams/Styles got their timeline screwed up.

The reason your opinion is wrong is because it is based solely on the lies of Shelley and Lovelady.

They literally have no reason to be there at that point in time. None.

You literally have no idea if that is true.
Just because you can't imagine what they are up to doesn't mean anything.
They were witnessed in that area approximately 50 - 60 seconds after the shooting. Just because it's not clear what they were doing there doesn't mean they weren't witnessed there. That would be a crazy way to look at things.

  Bump - cluttered freight elevator area

[Dan O'meara]

   Based on the accepted timeline, Lovelady/Shelley have :35 to get back to the far corner/Stairwell on the TSBD 1st Floor. And Lovelady is Not even facing the TSBD at the beginning of this :35 second mark. If I am to accept they went through the TSBD front door, the timelines have to be reset/extended. I do Not believe we are seeing Officer Baker running across the Island at :20 Seconds after the kill shot. These timelines have been Quickened/Manipulated in order for Officer Baker to glimpse Oswald on the other side of the vestibule door leading into the 2nd Floor lunchroom.

35 seconds to get towards the back of the first floor is loads of time.
From the lobby to the area near the elevators is covered in 20 seconds at a normal walking pace.
That leaves 15 seconds for them to get from their positions in the Darnell pic to the front door.
It would take Lovelady 3 seconds to get from his position on the steps to the front door, it's a few steps!
They could spend another 10 seconds listening to Gloria before they made it towards the back of the first floor, easily.
You've not really thought about this.
There is absolutely no need to extend any timelines.

[Royell Storing]

35 seconds to get towards the back of the first floor is loads of time.
From the lobby to the area near the elevators is covered in 20 seconds at a normal walking pace.
That leaves 15 seconds for them to get from their positions in the Darnell pic to the front door.
It would take Lovelady 3 seconds to get from his position on the steps to the front door, it's a few steps!
They could spend another 10 seconds listening to Gloria before they made it towards the back of the first floor, easily.
You've not really thought about this.
There is absolutely no need to extend any timelines.

   I have thought about this a lot. For starters, you gotta have Calvery in position on the TSDB Steps lickety split. She is Not on any Single Image racing down the sidewalk or in the street heading toward the TSBD front door. There is absolutely nothing supporting her being there talking with Lovelady on the TSBD front steps only :15 seconds after the kill shot. I fully appreciate the quicker you put Calvery on those steps, also serves to support my theory of those 2 Guys walking alongside the "Getaway" Car were originally inside that same car. Still, I believe the individuals filmed by Darnell & Couch been given an accelerated time stamping. 

[Zeon Mason]

I don’t see why the WC investigators would want Bakers time to the  steps to be as soon as 20-25 secs post shots because they’ve got to make sure there was enough time for their suspected 6th floor shooter Oswald to be able to get down to the 2nd floor lunchroom. Likewise They were careful to assign 2 minutes as the time for Mrs Reid’s return to the 2nd floor office so she’s not seeing Oswald too early before Baker/Truly do.

Baker himself thought it probably was closer to 90 secs post shots when he finally got to the door of the 2nd floor lunchroom.

It’s all depending on Mrs Garner. What time did she follow behind Adams and Stiles. She never gave any specific time estimate other than to say she was “right behind them” and followed “ almost immediately”.
So is that less than 30 secs? If so  then there is no way a 6th floor shooter using the stairs could have gone past her unseen. (however he could have used one of the elevators like Jack Dougherty allegedly did)

Could it be as long as 1 minute post shots? If so a 6th floor shooter CAN get down it the 4th floor landing and start down the 4th floor stairs to 3rd floor without being seen by Garner.

From what excerpts I’ve read from Barry Ernest book pertaining to Garners statements one particular one being she changed her statement from seeing Adam’s and Stiles (A/S) go down the stairs to HEARING THEM go down.

I have not found any clarification of what exactly Garner heard. If she’s saying she “ heard them” then to me that implies she heard their voices. If so then she could not have waited 1 minute to follow A/S because A/S have exited the stairwell to the 1st floor and it’s improbable Garner have heard their voices then.

As to what reason Lovelady and Shelley are suddenly more interested in going back in to the TSBD quickly rather than go investigate  all the commotion on the GK, it does seem kind of strange. Maybe seeing Baker running to the steps with his gun in hand was more compelling than what was happening elsewhere.

[Royell Storing]

I don’t see why the WC investigators would want Bakers time to the  steps to be as soon as 20-25 secs post shots because they’ve got to make sure there was enough time for their suspected 6th floor shooter Oswald to be able to get down to the 2nd floor lunchroom. Likewise They were careful to assign 2 minutes as the time for Mrs Reid’s return to the 2nd floor office so she’s not seeing Oswald too early before Baker/Truly do.

Baker himself thought it probably was closer to 90 secs post shots when he finally got to the door of the 2nd floor lunchroom.

It’s all depending on Mrs Garner. What time did she follow behind Adams and Stiles. She never gave any specific time estimate other than to say she was “right behind them” and followed “ almost immediately”.
So is that less than 30 secs? If so  then there is no way a 6th floor shooter using the stairs could have gone past her unseen. (however he could have used one of the elevators like Jack Dougherty allegedly did)

Could it be as long as 1 minute post shots? If so a 6th floor shooter CAN get down it the 4th floor landing and start down the 4th floor stairs to 3rd floor without being seen by Garner.

From what excerpts I’ve read from Barry Ernest book pertaining to Garners statements one particular one being she changed her statement from seeing Adam’s and Stiles (A/S) go down the stairs to HEARING THEM go down.

I have not found any clarification of what exactly Garner heard. If she’s saying she “ heard them” then to me that implies she heard their voices. If so then she could not have waited 1 minute to follow A/S because A/S have exited the stairwell to the 1st floor and it’s improbable Garner have heard their voices then.

As to what reason Lovelady and Shelley are suddenly more interested in going back in to the TSBD quickly rather than go investigate  all the commotion on the GK, it does seem kind of strange. Maybe seeing Baker running to the steps with his gun in hand was more compelling than what was happening elsewhere.

   To me, if you hear someone "go down" any stairs, this applies to the sound their feet make on those stairs. If you hear someone "on" the stairs, this would be the voice of that person. "Down" implies someone being in motion.