Lovelady in Darnell and it's Ramifications.

[Tom Graves]

You need to lay off the sauce and get some sleep.

Dear dan o'meara,

You need to read this again and then go get lost:

Your "identification" of Lovelady on the steps is based on a barely recognizable human face in Couch-Darnell and highly dubious witness statements. Your pivoting "Shelly" is probably Ochus V. Campbell, Vice-President and Secretary of the Texas School Book Depository Company. Campbell was standing in front of the steps near Roy Truly (who can also be seen standing in front of the steps in Couch-Darnell about 25 seconds after the final shot, watching Baker run past him to the steps) during the motorcade.

[Royell Storing]

Dear dan o'meara,

You need to read this again and then go get lost:

Your "identification" of Lovelady on the steps is based on a barely recognizable human face in Couch-Darnell and highly dubious witness statements. Your pivoting "Shelly" is probably Ochus V. Campbell, Vice-President and Secretary of the Texas School Book Depository Company. Campbell was standing in front of the steps near Roy Truly (who can also be seen standing in front of the steps in Couch-Darnell about 25 seconds after the final shot, watching Baker run past him to the steps) during the motorcade.

   Like I said, "Blurry Images". Same stuff we went through with Lovelady being mistakenly ID'd as Oswald on the Altgens Photo. Just wait on these images being cleaned up. There's people probably sitting on better images right now. Just like we saw with the Z Film, Wiegman Film, Couch Film, and Darnell Film.  You guys never learn.

[Dan O'meara]

Dear dan o'meara,

You need to read this again and then go get lost:

Your "identification" of Lovelady on the steps is based on a barely recognizable human face in Couch-Darnell and highly dubious witness statements. Your pivoting "Shelly" is probably Ochus V. Campbell, Vice-President and Secretary of the Texas School Book Depository Company. Campbell was standing in front of the steps near Roy Truly (who can also be seen standing in front of the steps in Couch-Darnell about 25 seconds after the final shot, watching Baker run past him to the steps) during the motorcade.

Your "identification" of Lovelady on the steps is based on a barely recognizable human face in Couch-Darnell and highly dubious witness statements.

If you cared about the evidence and read the posts properly you'd see this is not correct.
This is just your ranting opinion yet again.
Based on nothing more than 'what you think' is the case.
There is no challenge of the evidence I've put forward or the arguments emanating from that evidence.
Just thomas stamping his little foot and insisting 'it ain't so'.
Who do you think you are?
Just because you think you can insist something is the case without providing any supporting evidence, you expect everyone else to accept it and get upset when they don't.
Your identification of Lovelady has been blown out of the water by almost every single piece of evidence that has any bearing on this matter. But you don't care about the evidence, about what it means and how it refutes your 'it looks like Lovelady to me' routine.

You have no interest in debate or discussion so why don't you get lost.
Why don't you just run along.

[Tom Graves]

Like I said, "Blurry Images". Same stuff we went through with Lovelady being mistakenly ID'd as Oswald on the Altgens Photo. Just wait on these images being cleaned up. There's people probably sitting on better images right now. Just like we saw with the Z Film, Wiegman Film, Couch Film, and Darnell Film.  You guys never learn.

Dear Comrade Storing,

Do you deny that Gloria Calvery can be seen on the steps in Couch-Darnell?

-- Tom

[Tom Graves]

Your "identification" of Lovelady on the steps is based on a barely recognizable human face in Couch-Darnell and highly dubious witness statements.

Just thomas, stamping his little foot and insisting 'it ain't so'.

6' 3", 250, size 15.

[Tom Graves]

Dear danny boy o'meara, Your "identification" of Lovelady on the steps is based on a barely recognizable human face in Couch-Darnell and highly dubious witness statements.

danny boy o'meara's reply: "Waaaah!"

Me: Are there any affidavits, official statements or testimonies by witnesses that tend to place Billy Lovelady and William Shelley on or very near (i.e., not about 60 feet away from the steps as they appear to be in Couch-Darnell) the TSBD steps about 25 seconds after the final shot?

Grok:

Overview

No affidavits, official statements, or witness testimonies explicitly place Billy Lovelady and William Shelley on or very near the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) steps approximately 25 seconds after the final shot (consistent with their apparent positions ~60 feet west in the Couch and Darnell films). Instead, available records indicate they left the steps almost immediately after the shots (within 15-20 seconds) and moved west toward the railroad yards and triple underpass area. Their initial affidavits (November 22, 1963) imply a quicker re-entry to the building than their later Warren Commission (WC) testimonies, but neither version supports their remaining on or near the steps at the ~25-second mark. Later accounts (FBI interviews, WC testimonies) describe a brief excursion outside before returning via a side door after 5-10 minutes (or longer per HSCA interview). The Warren Report reconciles this by estimating their return at several minutes post-shots, but photographic evidence (Couch/Darnell) aligns with an early departure.

Key Statements by Lovelady and Shelley

The following table summarizes their primary statements, focusing on post-shot movements and timing. All are official (affidavits to Dallas Police Department [DPD] or FBI; WC/HSCA testimonies).

(Matrix) Source/Date    Speaker    Key Excerpt on Post-Shot Location/Timing    Implication for ~25 Seconds Post-Shot

DPD Affidavit, Nov. 22, 1963 [web:0, web:1, web:38, web:44, web:56]

Billy Lovelady

"When the President's car passed... shots were heard... After it was over we went back into the building and went to work" (handwritten version, with "went to work" struck through in typed report).

Implies immediate re-entry to TSBD front (steps area) after shots; no mention of leaving steps or excursion. Does not specify duration but suggests presence near steps/building shortly after.

FBI Interview, Nov. 22, 1963 [web:0, web:52]

Billy Lovelady

"Immediately after hearing the shots he and Shelley started running towards the Presidential car, but it sped away... They stayed in that area for approximately five minutes when we then re-entered the Depository building by the side door located on the west side." (CE 1381, March 1964 version echoes this).

They left steps immediately, ran ~50-100 feet west (toward Elm St./underpass), stayed 5 minutes, re-entered west side. Not on/near steps at 25 seconds.

WC Testimony, Apr. 7, 1964 [web:3, web:15, web:22, web:54]
Billy Lovelady

"After the shots... Gloria Calvery ran up... Billy Lovelady and [Shelley] took off across the street... walked down to the first railroad track... watched them searching cars... then we came in through our parking lot at the west end." Estimates Truly/Baker entered building 3-4 minutes after shots.

Left steps immediately after Calvery's alert (~10-15 seconds post-shots), walked west ~60-100 feet to railroad area. Not on/near steps at 25 seconds; return unspecified but after several minutes.

HSCA Interview, 1978 [web:8, web:27, web:29, web:30, web:35]

Billy Lovelady

After Calvery's alert [that JFK had been shot], left for railroad yard; "it took 20-25 minutes before got back in the building."

Extended time outside (west of steps); contradicts earlier affidavits. Clearly not on/near steps at 25 seconds.

DPD Affidavit, Nov. 22, 1963

William Shelley

"I heard gunshots... ran across the street to the corner of the park [~45 feet west]... went back to the building and went inside and called my wife."

Immediate movement west (~45 feet from steps), then quick re-entry to front building (implies steps area). No explicit excursion; suggests near steps/building shortly after.

FBI Interview, Nov. 22, 1963 [web:15, web:45]

William Shelley

Similar to Lovelady's: Ran toward car, stayed in area ~5 minutes, re-entered west side door.

Left steps immediately, west ~50-100 feet, 5-minute stay outside. Not on/near steps at 25 seconds.

WC Testimony, Apr. 7, 1964 [web:4, web:15, web:45, web:48]

William Shelley

Echoes Lovelady: After Calvery (10-15 seconds post-shots), crossed street to "little old island" (60 feet west), then to railroad track; watched searches, re-entered west parking lot. Estimates 3-4 minutes until Truly/Baker entered front.

Left steps immediately, moved west ~60 feet (matches Couch/Darnell positions). Not on/near steps at 25 seconds; return after several minutes.

Analysis and Reconciliation in Official Reports

Warren Report (1964) [web:17, web:48]: States Shelley and Lovelady "moved out into the street" after Calvery's alert, then to railroad yards; re-entered "several minutes after Baker and Truly rushed through the front entrance." Cites their WC testimonies but notes initial affidavits' vagueness on excursion. Concludes they were not on steps post-shots but returned before Victoria Adams' alleged first-floor encounter (~1-2 minutes post-shots). No mention of 25-second timing.

Timing Discrepancies: Initial affidavits (day-of) suggest faster re-entry (potentially placing them near steps/building within 1 minute), but WC/HSCA versions extend time outside to 5-25 minutes. Researchers (e.g., Harold Weisberg [web:0, web:9]) argue WC testimonies were altered to align with Oswald's timeline, but photographic evidence (Couch: Baker running toward TSBD ~25 seconds post-shot; Shelley/Lovelady visible ~60 feet west) supports immediate departure [web:8, web:22].

No Supporting Witness Testimonies: No third-party affidavits/testimonies place them on/near steps at ~25 seconds. WC/HSCA witnesses (e.g., Sarah Stanton, Buell Frazier) confirm their pre-shot presence on steps but not post-shot [web:10, web:32]. Victoria Adams' WC testimony mentions seeing them on first floor ~1 minute post-shots, but she later recanted this (added without permission; corroborated by Sandra Styles as absent) [web:20, web:23, web:40]. No other witnesses (e.g., Truly, Baker) reference them near steps at that time.

In summary, evidence points to Shelley and Lovelady leaving the steps within seconds of the final shot, positioning them ~60 feet west by ~25 seconds (as in Couch/Darnell), not on or very near the steps. Initial affidavits hint at quicker return but do not contradict this movement.

. . . . . . .

Me: What FBI interviews or witness testimonies have them not reentering the building via a side or rear door until 5-10 minutes after the final shot?

Grok: The following FBI interviews and witness testimonies explicitly state or imply that Billy Lovelady and William Shelley did not re-enter the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) via a side or rear door until approximately 5-10 minutes after the final shot. All sources are official (FBI reports or Warren Commission [WC] testimonies), and I’ve focused on those directly addressing their re-entry timing and location.
Key FBI Interviews and Witness Testimonies

Source/Date

Speaker

Key Excerpt on Re-Entry Timing/Location

Notes on Timing and Re-Entry

FBI Interview, Nov. 22, 1963 (CE 1381, reiterated March 1964) [web:0, web:52]

Billy Lovelady

"Immediately after hearing the shots he and Shelley started running towards the Presidential car, but it sped away... They stayed in that area for approximately five minutes when we then re-entered the Depository building by the side door located on the west side."

Explicitly states ~5 minutes outside before re-entering via west side door. Supports 5-minute delay before re-entry, not via front entrance.

FBI Interview, Nov. 22, 1963 [web:15, web:45]

William Shelley

Similar to Lovelady’s account: After hearing shots, ran toward the presidential car, stayed in the area for approximately 5 minutes, then re-entered through the west side door.

Matches Lovelady’s timeline; ~5 minutes outside, re-entry via west side door (not front steps).

WC Testimony, Apr. 7, 1964 [web:3, web:15, web:22, web:54]

Billy Lovelady

After Gloria Calvery’s alert (~10-15 seconds post-shots), "me and Bill Shelley took off across the street... walked down to the first railroad track... watched them searching cars... then we came in through our parking lot at the west end." Estimates Roy Truly and Officer Baker entered the building 3-4 minutes after shots.

Implies 5-10 minutes outside (based on observing searches and movement to railroad yards) before re-entering via west parking lot (side/rear door). Timing aligns with ~5-10 minutes post-shots for re-entry.

WC Testimony, Apr. 7, 1964 [web:4, web:15, web:45, web:48]

William Shelley

After Calvery’s alert, crossed street to the "little old island" (~60 feet west), then to railroad tracks; watched police search cars, then re-entered via west parking lot. Estimates Truly and Baker entered front entrance ~3-4 minutes post-shots.

Suggests ~5-10 minutes outside (consistent with Lovelady’s account and search observation) before re-entering via west side/rear door. Not via front steps.

Additional Context and Notes

HSCA Interview, 1978 (Lovelady) [web:8, web:27, web:29, web:30, web:35]: Lovelady claimed he and Shelley stayed outside for 20-25 minutes before re-entering, which extends beyond the 5-10 minute range. This contradicts earlier statements but reinforces re-entry via a side/rear door (west side), not the front steps.

Warren Report (1964) [web:17, web:48]: Summarizes that Shelley and Lovelady moved west to the railroad yards after Calvery’s alert and re-entered “several minutes” after Truly and Baker (who entered ~1-2 minutes post-shots). This aligns with a 5-10 minute delay and west side re-entry, though less precise.

No Contradictory Testimonies for Re-Entry Timing: No other witnesses (e.g., Roy Truly, Marrion Baker, Buell Frazier, or Victoria Adams) explicitly place Lovelady or Shelley re-entering the building sooner than 5 minutes or via the front entrance. Adams’ WC testimony (claiming she saw them on the first floor ~1 minute post-shots) was later disputed by her and Sandra Styles as fabricated [web:20, web:23, web:40].

Photographic Corroboration: The Couch and Darnell films (~25 seconds post-shots) show figures resembling Lovelady and Shelley ~60 feet west of the TSBD steps, supporting their immediate departure and absence from the front entrance area [web:8, web:22]. This aligns with their statements of not re-entering until later via the west side.

Summary

The FBI interviews (Nov. 22, 1963) and WC testimonies (Apr. 7, 1964) of Lovelady and Shelley consistently state they remained outside for ~5 minutes (FBI) to 5-10 minutes (WC, inferred from activities and Truly/Baker timeline) before re-entering the TSBD via the west side or rear door. No official statements indicate re-entry via the front steps or within 25 seconds to 5 minutes post-shots.

[Dan O'meara]

Me: Are there any affidavits, official statements or testimonies by witnesses that tend to place Billy Lovelady and William Shelley on or very near (i.e., not about 60 feet away from the steps as they appear to be in Couch-Darnell) the TSBD steps about 25 seconds after the final shot?

Grok:

Overview

No affidavits, official statements, or witness testimonies explicitly place Billy Lovelady and William Shelley on or very near the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) steps approximately 25 seconds after the final shot (consistent with their apparent positions ~60 feet west in the Couch and Darnell films). Instead, available records indicate they left the steps almost immediately after the shots (within 15-20 seconds) and moved west toward the railroad yards and triple underpass area. Their initial affidavits (November 22, 1963) imply a quicker re-entry to the building than their later Warren Commission (WC) testimonies, but neither version supports their remaining on or near the steps at the ~25-second mark. Later accounts (FBI interviews, WC testimonies) describe a brief excursion outside before returning via a side door after 5-10 minutes (or longer per HSCA interview). The Warren Report reconciles this by estimating their return at several minutes post-shots, but photographic evidence (Couch/Darnell) aligns with an early departure.

Key Statements by Lovelady and Shelley

The following table summarizes their primary statements, focusing on post-shot movements and timing. All are official (affidavits to Dallas Police Department [DPD] or FBI; WC/HSCA testimonies).

(Matrix) Source/Date    Speaker    Key Excerpt on Post-Shot Location/Timing    Implication for ~25 Seconds Post-Shot

DPD Affidavit, Nov. 22, 1963 [web:0, web:1, web:38, web:44, web:56]

Billy Lovelady

"When the President's car passed... shots were heard... After it was over we went back into the building and went to work" (handwritten version, with "went to work" struck through in typed report).

Implies immediate re-entry to TSBD front (steps area) after shots; no mention of leaving steps or excursion. Does not specify duration but suggests presence near steps/building shortly after.

FBI Interview, Nov. 22, 1963 [web:0, web:52]

Billy Lovelady

"Immediately after hearing the shots he and Shelley started running towards the Presidential car, but it sped away... They stayed in that area for approximately five minutes when we then re-entered the Depository building by the side door located on the west side." (CE 1381, March 1964 version echoes this).

They left steps immediately, ran ~50-100 feet west (toward Elm St./underpass), stayed 5 minutes, re-entered west side. Not on/near steps at 25 seconds.

WC Testimony, Apr. 7, 1964 [web:3, web:15, web:22, web:54]
Billy Lovelady

"After the shots... Gloria Calvery ran up... Billy Lovelady and [Shelley] took off across the street... walked down to the first railroad track... watched them searching cars... then we came in through our parking lot at the west end." Estimates Truly/Baker entered building 3-4 minutes after shots.

Left steps immediately after Calvery's alert (~10-15 seconds post-shots), walked west ~60-100 feet to railroad area. Not on/near steps at 25 seconds; return unspecified but after several minutes.

HSCA Interview, 1978 [web:8, web:27, web:29, web:30, web:35]

Billy Lovelady

After Calvery's alert [that JFK had been shot], left for railroad yard; "it took 20-25 minutes before got back in the building."

Extended time outside (west of steps); contradicts earlier affidavits. Clearly not on/near steps at 25 seconds.

DPD Affidavit, Nov. 22, 1963

William Shelley

"I heard gunshots... ran across the street to the corner of the park [~45 feet west]... went back to the building and went inside and called my wife."

Immediate movement west (~45 feet from steps), then quick re-entry to front building (implies steps area). No explicit excursion; suggests near steps/building shortly after.

FBI Interview, Nov. 22, 1963 [web:15, web:45]

William Shelley

Similar to Lovelady's: Ran toward car, stayed in area ~5 minutes, re-entered west side door.

Left steps immediately, west ~50-100 feet, 5-minute stay outside. Not on/near steps at 25 seconds.

WC Testimony, Apr. 7, 1964 [web:4, web:15, web:45, web:48]

William Shelley

Echoes Lovelady: After Calvery (10-15 seconds post-shots), crossed street to "little old island" (60 feet west), then to railroad track; watched searches, re-entered west parking lot. Estimates 3-4 minutes until Truly/Baker entered front.

Left steps immediately, moved west ~60 feet (matches Couch/Darnell positions). Not on/near steps at 25 seconds; return after several minutes.

Analysis and Reconciliation in Official Reports

Warren Report (1964) [web:17, web:48]: States Shelley and Lovelady "moved out into the street" after Calvery's alert, then to railroad yards; re-entered "several minutes after Baker and Truly rushed through the front entrance." Cites their WC testimonies but notes initial affidavits' vagueness on excursion. Concludes they were not on steps post-shots but returned before Victoria Adams' alleged first-floor encounter (~1-2 minutes post-shots). No mention of 25-second timing.

Timing Discrepancies: Initial affidavits (day-of) suggest faster re-entry (potentially placing them near steps/building within 1 minute), but WC/HSCA versions extend time outside to 5-25 minutes. Researchers (e.g., Harold Weisberg [web:0, web:9]) argue WC testimonies were altered to align with Oswald's timeline, but photographic evidence (Couch: Baker running toward TSBD ~25 seconds post-shot; Shelley/Lovelady visible ~60 feet west) supports immediate departure [web:8, web:22].

No Supporting Witness Testimonies: No third-party affidavits/testimonies place them on/near steps at ~25 seconds. WC/HSCA witnesses (e.g., Sarah Stanton, Buell Frazier) confirm their pre-shot presence on steps but not post-shot [web:10, web:32]. Victoria Adams' WC testimony mentions seeing them on first floor ~1 minute post-shots, but she later recanted this (added without permission; corroborated by Sandra Styles as absent) [web:20, web:23, web:40]. No other witnesses (e.g., Truly, Baker) reference them near steps at that time.

In summary, evidence points to Shelley and Lovelady leaving the steps within seconds of the final shot, positioning them ~60 feet west by ~25 seconds (as in Couch/Darnell), not on or very near the steps. Initial affidavits hint at quicker return but do not contradict this movement.

. . . . . . .

Me: What FBI interviews or witness testimonies have them not reentering the building via a side or rear door until 5-10 minutes after the final shot?

Grok: The following FBI interviews and witness testimonies explicitly state or imply that Billy Lovelady and William Shelley did not re-enter the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) via a side or rear door until approximately 5-10 minutes after the final shot. All sources are official (FBI reports or Warren Commission [WC] testimonies), and I’ve focused on those directly addressing their re-entry timing and location.
Key FBI Interviews and Witness Testimonies

Source/Date

Speaker

Key Excerpt on Re-Entry Timing/Location

Notes on Timing and Re-Entry

FBI Interview, Nov. 22, 1963 (CE 1381, reiterated March 1964) [web:0, web:52]

Billy Lovelady

"Immediately after hearing the shots he and Shelley started running towards the Presidential car, but it sped away... They stayed in that area for approximately five minutes when we then re-entered the Depository building by the side door located on the west side."

Explicitly states ~5 minutes outside before re-entering via west side door. Supports 5-minute delay before re-entry, not via front entrance.

FBI Interview, Nov. 22, 1963 [web:15, web:45]

William Shelley

Similar to Lovelady’s account: After hearing shots, ran toward the presidential car, stayed in the area for approximately 5 minutes, then re-entered through the west side door.

Matches Lovelady’s timeline; ~5 minutes outside, re-entry via west side door (not front steps).

WC Testimony, Apr. 7, 1964 [web:3, web:15, web:22, web:54]

Billy Lovelady

After Gloria Calvery’s alert (~10-15 seconds post-shots), "me and Bill Shelley took off across the street... walked down to the first railroad track... watched them searching cars... then we came in through our parking lot at the west end." Estimates Roy Truly and Officer Baker entered the building 3-4 minutes after shots.

Implies 5-10 minutes outside (based on observing searches and movement to railroad yards) before re-entering via west parking lot (side/rear door). Timing aligns with ~5-10 minutes post-shots for re-entry.

WC Testimony, Apr. 7, 1964 [web:4, web:15, web:45, web:48]

William Shelley

After Calvery’s alert, crossed street to the "little old island" (~60 feet west), then to railroad tracks; watched police search cars, then re-entered via west parking lot. Estimates Truly and Baker entered front entrance ~3-4 minutes post-shots.

Suggests ~5-10 minutes outside (consistent with Lovelady’s account and search observation) before re-entering via west side/rear door. Not via front steps.

Additional Context and Notes

HSCA Interview, 1978 (Lovelady) [web:8, web:27, web:29, web:30, web:35]: Lovelady claimed he and Shelley stayed outside for 20-25 minutes before re-entering, which extends beyond the 5-10 minute range. This contradicts earlier statements but reinforces re-entry via a side/rear door (west side), not the front steps.

Warren Report (1964) [web:17, web:48]: Summarizes that Shelley and Lovelady moved west to the railroad yards after Calvery’s alert and re-entered “several minutes” after Truly and Baker (who entered ~1-2 minutes post-shots). This aligns with a 5-10 minute delay and west side re-entry, though less precise.

No Contradictory Testimonies for Re-Entry Timing: No other witnesses (e.g., Roy Truly, Marrion Baker, Buell Frazier, or Victoria Adams) explicitly place Lovelady or Shelley re-entering the building sooner than 5 minutes or via the front entrance. Adams’ WC testimony (claiming she saw them on the first floor ~1 minute post-shots) was later disputed by her and Sandra Styles as fabricated [web:20, web:23, web:40].

Photographic Corroboration: The Couch and Darnell films (~25 seconds post-shots) show figures resembling Lovelady and Shelley ~60 feet west of the TSBD steps, supporting their immediate departure and absence from the front entrance area [web:8, web:22]. This aligns with their statements of not re-entering until later via the west side.

Summary

The FBI interviews (Nov. 22, 1963) and WC testimonies (Apr. 7, 1964) of Lovelady and Shelley consistently state they remained outside for ~5 minutes (FBI) to 5-10 minutes (WC, inferred from activities and Truly/Baker timeline) before re-entering the TSBD via the west side or rear door. No official statements indicate re-entry via the front steps or within 25 seconds to 5 minutes post-shots.

No affidavits, official statements, or witness testimonies explicitly place Billy Lovelady and William Shelley on or very near the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) steps approximately 25 seconds after the final shot

As I've already said, your reliance on Grok is making you look foolish.
I'm now going to perform a magic trick and make little thomas disappear. All I have to do is engage him in an actual debate and he will vanish.
So...there's nothing to place Shelley or Lovelady on or near the steps approximately 25 seconds after the final shot?
Really?
If thomas knew the most basic aspects of this case, he'd know that both men place themselves on the steps for at least 3 minutes after the final shot!

"Mr. SHELLEY. Well, I heard something sounded like it was a firecracker and a slight pause and then two more a little bit closer together.
Mr. BALL. And then?
Mr. SHELLEY. I didn’t think anything ahout it.
Mr. BALL. What did it sound like to you?
Mr. SHELLEY. Sounded like a miniature cannon or baby giant firecracker, wasn’t real loud.
Mr. BALL. What happened; what did you do then?
Mr. SHELLEY. I didn’t do anything for a minute."


Mr. BALL. Do you have any idea how long it was from the time you heard those three sounds or three noises until you saw Truly and Baker going into the building?
Mr. SHELLEY. It would have to be 3 or 4 minutes I would say because this girl [Gloria] that ran back up there was down near where the car was when the President was hit.
Mr. BALL. She ran back up to the door and you had still remained standing there?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.

According to Shelley's WC testimony, after the shots he remained on the steps for at least 3 minutes before Gloria ran up.
How can you not know this, thomas?
I have posted this information time and time again.
And what about Lovelady?

Mr. BALL. Right after you talked to Gloria. did you leave the steps and go toward the tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY. Yes.

Mr. BALL. You heard the shots. And how long after that was it before Gloria Calvary came up?
Mr. LOVELADY. Oh, approximately 3 minutes, I would say.
Mr. BALL. Three minutes is a long time.

Do you agree that both Shelley and Lovelady place themselves on the front steps for a least 3 minutes before Gloria arrives (don't bother trying to duck this question)?
Do you agree that the evidence you have used to try to support your identification of Lovelady and Shelley walking along the Elm St Ext in the Darnell footage actually refutes such an identification (you will be pressed for an answer on this as well)?

And remember both men state that after they left the steps they went across to the "little, old island", where they remained for at least a minute before heading along the Elm St Ext. Making your identification of the men impossible.

It has been demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that Shelley and Lovelady lied about their movements in the immediate aftermath of the shooting. Their affidavits are the only time they were honest.
Their insistence that they were on the steps for at least 3 minutes before Gloria arrived should have caused a massive headache for the WC Sham because both men stated that it wasn't until after they moved away from the steps that they saw Truly and Baker still outside the building.
They were, in effect, testifying that Truly and Baker were still outside the building at least 3 minutes after the shooting, if not longer. This was in complete contradiction with the Warren Commission's own time trials involving Baker and Truly which had them entering the building within seconds.
How did the Sham deal with this obvious contradiction?
Unbelievably, they accepted the results of the Truly/Baker time trials and accepted the testimonies of Shelley and Lovelady and just ignored the fact there was a contradiction.

[Tom Graves]

[...]

Dear dan "Mister Magoo" o'meara,

Shelley's and Lovelady's allegedly spotting Baker and Truly near the entrance to the TSBD indicates (as does Baker's and Truly's location near the steps in Couch-Darnell and Shelley's and Lovelady's location on the Elm Street Extension sidewalk in same) that they did so about 25 seconds after the final shot.

Which, in turn, suggests that Shelley and Lovelady had already intercepted Gloria Calvery at or near the "island," where she told them that JFK had been shot and from which they started running / walking down Elm Street Extension toward the railway yard and were "captured" doing so in the aforementioned Couch-Darnell clip.

Which "old, little island" 1) lies between the steps and where the limo was when the final shot rang out, 2) lies between the steps and the triple underpass, 3) Shelley and Lovelady admitted going over to, and 4) Buell Wesley Frazier saw them walking towards as they were "heading towards the triple underpass" before Calvary came up to the steps about ten seconds later.

We don't know who your "Lovelady On The Steps In Couch-Darnell" was, danny boy o'meara, but it's a good bet that your "Shelley" was Ochus V. Campbell, Roy Truly's motorcade-watching sidekick and Vice-President / Secretary of the Texas School Book Depository Company.

-- Tom