Ruth Paine Has Passed Away

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Whichever Sock Puppet you are, Binnie my lad - and on the same thread on which Puppet Master Martin reappears, no less! - one does not get the feeling that we are in for what I would call "substantive" contributions. Can't we at least be treated to a higher class of Sock Puppet, Martin? And there was another one yesterday - Sven or Swen or something like that. What is the game here? At least have the Sock Puppets do some creative things like argue vehemently with each other. Wouldn't that be more fun for everyone? When newbies appear and seem to be instantly consumed with rage at the "myopic lunacy" of the "lone nutter cult," it's rather obvious that there is a backstory. Perhaps I'll create my own little menagerie of Sock Puppets to show you how it could be done more creatively - but I'll call them Lance 2, Lance 3 and whatnot so it will be obvious this is just a training exercise for amateurs like Martin.

He tried "Pimply Bum" but Duncan caught him.

His argument here is that they didn't find the clothes Oswald was wearing when the photos were taken seven months earlier therefore the photos are faked. He doesn't believe all of the other evidence on the authenticity of the photos - Marina's testimony, the camera, the photographic analysis, the DeMohrenschildt's being a given a photo at the time - but he would apparently believe they were authentic if they simply found those darned clothes. Yes he would.

Gosh, he wouldn't say the clothes were planted or anything. No he wouldn't. Even though the other evidence is waived away.

[Gary Hemod]

Have any of the CTers added Ruth Paine to their list of "mysterious deaths"?  It took a long while, but the death squad apparently got to her before she could talk.   She was next on the list after Clint Hil

Don't forget Paul 'I found the bullet' Landis. They should put him in witness protection.

[Tom Graves]

Don't forget Paul 'I found the bullet' Landis. They should put him in witness protection.

Yes!

They can probably find him at "The Cellar" around 5 AM.

[Michael T. Griffith]

I take it no one's going to try to explain how Michael Paine could have told Ruth Paine that he was "sure" Oswald had killed JFK when he called Ruth from work at 1:00 PM on 11/22, when Oswald had not even been arrested yet. How in the world would Michael Paine have even suspected, much less been certain, that Oswald had shot JFK before Oswald was even arrested, especially since both he and Ruth later claimed they were shocked when they learned that Oswald had been charged with JFK's murder?

The FBI's own report on its investigation of the phone call informs us (1) that the records of the Southwestern States Telephone company show only one call between Michael's work and the Paine home between November 22-26, the 11/22 call, and (2) that Ruth herself admitted the call occurred at 1:00 PM, some 50 minutes before Oswald was even arrested.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=111186#relPageId=124&search=investigation_regarding alleged telephone call

During this phone call, Michael told Ruth that he was certain Oswald had killed Kennedy but that Oswald was not responsible for the assassination, adding "we both know who is responsible." Again, this was some 50 minutes before Oswald was even arrested.

Everywhere you look in the life of the Paines, you find intelligence connections.

Take, for example, Naushon Island, a hangout of Allen Dulles's mistress and spy Mary Bancroft. Ruth visited the island and then stopped to see her CIA-connected sister in Virginia shortly before driving back cross-country to pick up Marina in New Orleans. Wow, what a coincidence.

Ruth claimed that she found the Kostin letter when she was moving her desk. However, Chris Newton has proved with photographic evidence that the Ruth's couch and desk were in the same position on 11/9 and 11/10 as they were on 11/23. Ruth lied in order to establish a pretext for picking up the letter.

Michael Paine told Dan Rather in 1993 that he saw one of the infamous backyard rifle photos in April 1963! He claimed that Oswald proudly showed him one of the photos when he picked him up for dinner. Humm, why didn't he say anything about this to the FBI or the WC?

Long after the assassination, in the 1980s, Ruth showed up at Sue Wheaton’s council meetings of the anti-Contra group in Nicaragua, of which Ruth's group Pro-Nica was not a member. Wheaton noticed that Ruth was taking down information about individuals and groups in attendance. Ruth “studied the bulletin board there, copying everything on it. . . . Also she made reference to people she knew in the U. S. Embassy.” Wheaton added that Ruth would show up with two men who would make tape recordings and take pictures. Ruth claimed they were authorized by the Nicaragua Network to take photos, but when this was checked, the claim turned out to be false. IOW, Ruth was still doing surveillance work for the CIA in the 1980s.

[Lance Payette]

I take it no one's going to try to explain how Michael Paine could have told Ruth Paine that he was "sure" Oswald had killed JFK when he called Ruth from work at 1:00 PM on 11/22, when Oswald had not even been arrested yet. How in the world would Michael Paine have even suspected, much less been certain, that Oswald had shot JFK before Oswald was even arrested, especially since both he and Ruth later claimed they were shocked when they learned that Oswald had been charged with JFK's murder?

This factoid - and make no mistake, it is a factoid - is beaten to death and beyond at an Ed Forum thread in which Greg Doudna, Max Good, Bill Simpich and numerous others participate: https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/27706-the-timing-and-content-of-the-we-both-know-who-was-responsible-phone-call-of-ruth-and-michael-paine/page/5/.

I am not going to rehash it here, but there is no certainty that Michael made any comment like this. The subject call was a collect call from Michael to Ruth, the alleged comment (attributed to a "male voice") was reported by an unidentified someone with the telephone company (probably the operator) to Paul Barger at the Irving PD (who said the source was a telephone lineman). The exact time is unknown, but the testimony of Michael's coworker Krystinik would suggest it was possibly after Oswald's arrest and certainly after the TSBD had been mentioned on the news. (FWIW, Bill Simpich argues on that thread that the comment attributed to Michael was actually invented by an intelligence operative!)

All I will add is that I recently watched the first three hours of news coverage by WFAA-TV in Dallas. It is fascinating to watch this unfold in real time, long before it was even known that JFK had died. I was surprised at how early in the coverage a crude map of Dealey Plaza was drawn on a chalkboard in the studio and then how soon a photo of the TSBD with the reporter pointing to the sixth-floor window was shown. The TSBD is clearly shown at 1:42 below, which was a mere 2 hours and 4 minutes after JFK was shot (because we know exactly when Zapruder went on the air) and the chalkboard is nearly an hour earlier, at 42:45.

[Michael T. Griffith]

This factoid - and make no mistake, it is a factoid - is beaten to death and beyond at an Ed Forum thread in which Greg Doudna, Max Good, Bill Simpich and numerous others participate: https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/27706-the-timing-and-content-of-the-we-both-know-who-was-responsible-phone-call-of-ruth-and-michael-paine/page/5/.

I am not going to rehash it here, but there is no certainty that Michael made any comment like this. The subject call was a collect call from Michael to Ruth, the alleged comment (attributed to a "male voice") was reported by an unidentified someone with the telephone company (probably the operator) to Paul Barger at the Irving PD (who said the source was a telephone lineman). The exact time is unknown, but the testimony of Michael's coworker Krystinik would suggest it was possibly after Oswald's arrest and certainly after the TSBD had been mentioned on the news. (FWIW, Bill Simpich argues on that thread that the comment attributed to Michael was actually invented by an intelligence operative!)

All I will add is that I recently watched the first three hours of news coverage by WFAA-TV in Dallas. It is fascinating to watch this unfold in real time, long before it was even known that JFK had died. I was surprised at how early in the coverage a crude map of Dealey Plaza was drawn on a chalkboard in the studio and then how soon a photo of the TSBD with the reporter pointing to the sixth-floor window was shown. The TSBD is clearly shown at 1:42 below, which was a mere 2 hours and 4 minutes after JFK was shot (because we know exactly when Zapruder went on the air) and the chalkboard is nearly an hour earlier, at 42:45.

Umm, again, (1) Ruth Paine herself told the FBI that the call occurred at 1:00 PM. So the fact that news footage showed the TSBD at 1:42 is irrelevant.

(2) The phone company records prove the call was made by Michael Paine to Ruth's residence, because he made the call collect.

I linked the FBI report in my reply. Did you not read it?

[Martin Weidmann]

Really.

Based on the testimony of Marina Oswald.

And what in her testimony places the rifle found at the TSBD in Ruth Paine's garage on 11/21/63? Am I missing something here?

See above.

Where in her testimony did Marina say exactly that the rifle she saw in late September, actually belonged to LHO and was the same one that was found at the TSBD?

Again, I could be missing something here, but all I could find was that she said she saw the wooden stock of a rifle wrapped in a blanket, about three weeks after leaving New Orleans (i.e. in late September 1963), and the record shows that she wasn't able to identify the MC rifle shown to her on Friday evening, just hours after the assassination.

So, she can't identify the rifle on 11/22/63, but she knows for sure it's the same one she saw in late September and she somehow knows it belongs to LHO. Huh? How does that work?

His rifle was found there.

His rifle? Really? But I'll play along; let's say it is indeed the MC rifle that Hidell ordered from Klein's and let's even assume that Marina did indeed see that same rifle in Ruth Paine's garage in late September, how does that justify the conclusion that Oswald brought that rifle into the TSBD? Let me guess, you somehow know for certain what was in the paper bag Oswald was carrying, right?

Marina said he did.

Did she? You really are easy to please.

But sorry, that's really non sequitur. First of all, Marina was no expert on rifles and only saw the wooden stock of a rifle wrapped in a blanket once in late September 1963. At least that's what she said. We have no way to verify if that was true or not! She could have assumed that it was LHO's but assumption is not evidence. Also, we know for a fact that Marina was not able to identify the rifle when it was shown to her. So "Marina said he did" seems to be little more that speculative conjecture.

His rifle was found there.

See above. It might seem reasonable to assume that the alleged "owner" of any item would be the one who brought it to a particular location but even the best assumption isn't evidence that he did.

As I have said many times in the past, I'll gladly accept that Oswald kept his rifle in Ruth Paine's garage, collected it on 11/21/63 an took it to the TSBD the next day, when I am presented with actual evidence instead of mere assumptions and conjectures based upon the highly questionable statements of Marina Oswald.