What if the sixth floor had not been empty?

[Lance Payette]

FWIW, the Secret Service reconstruction film has some excellent shots of the interior or the sixth floor, including (in Part 2) a shot from the sniper's nest down toward the southwest window. Actually, both of these are quite interesting.

[Charles Collins]

OK, good. The commotion from the sirens is a definite possibility. Or perhaps the rifle was actually stashed over on the west side Another possibility, which is what John seemed to be suggesting, is that Williams actually did see Oswald. The Rowland sighting sounds too much like Oswald to reject it completely. I have seen animations purporting to show that Williams would have had an unobstructed view of the location where Rowland saw Oswald, which is why I was having him leaving before Oswald emerged. I'd definitely be interested in your 3D model if you can locate it. A really accurate model or animation of what the sixth floor looked like on 11-22 seems difficult to find.

I will start looking and see what I can find. My old computer died and some things were lost. So, I may need to just repeat the exercise.

As far as BRW seeing LHO goes, I think it is quite possible. I also think (along similar lines) that BRW could have actually been in the sniper's nest at one point. Hence Rowland's description of seeing someone in that window is possible. I could understand why BRW would be reluctant to divulge these things (if they are true). After all it would just be BRW and LHO who knew for sure. And LHO was no longer a factor (after 11/24/63).

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Buell Frazier said that Fritz threatened him if he, Frazier, didn't sign a confession. In fact, threatened to beat him.

I always wondered given the terrible racism at that time why they didn't coerce/intimidate the black workers (even others) to implicate Oswald. Like they allegedly did to Frazier. The black workers were, of course, particularly vulnerable to this. So force them to say they saw Oswald with a long package that day, that he expressed hatred towards JFK, they saw him steal some wrapping paper, even that they saw him (or heard someone) go down the stairs after the shooting. Anything. After all, the claim is that Oswald was railroaded, not given consul, evidence planted, he was a patsy. So what about the black workers?

But nothing. Nothing they said really implicated Oswald in any way. In any trial, they would likely be called as defense witnesses.

[Lance Payette]

Buell Frazier said that Fritz threatened him if he, Frazier, didn't sign a confession. In fact, threatened to beat him.

I always wondered given the terrible racism at that time why they didn't coerce/intimidate the black workers (even others) to implicate Oswald. Like they allegedly did to Frazier. The black workers were, of course, particularly vulnerable to this. So force them to say they saw Oswald with a long package that day, that he expressed hatred towards JFK, they saw him steal some wrapping paper, even that they saw him (or heard someone) go down the stairs after the shooting. Anything. After all, the claim is that Oswald was railroaded, not given consul, evidence planted, he was a patsy. So what about the black workers?

But nothing. Nothing they said really implicated Oswald in any way. In any trial, they would likely be called as defense witnesses.

Similar to what I said about Frazier - supposedly one of the key players in the conspiracy, but he places Oswald on the first floor just before noon every time he's interviewed. In fact, everyone from Truly on down apparently didn't get the Conspiracy Memo. Ditto with Ruth Paine.

[Charles Collins]

OK, good. The commotion from the sirens is a definite possibility. Or perhaps the rifle was actually stashed over on the west side Another possibility, which is what John seemed to be suggesting, is that Williams actually did see Oswald. The Rowland sighting sounds too much like Oswald to reject it completely. I have seen animations purporting to show that Williams would have had an unobstructed view of the location where Rowland saw Oswald, which is why I was having him leaving before Oswald emerged. I'd definitely be interested in your 3D model if you can locate it. A really accurate model or animation of what the sixth floor looked like on 11-22 seems difficult to find.

I couldn't find the images I generated during the earlier discussion a few years ago. I suspect they were lost with the old computer dying. I haven't tried yet to model the entire sixth floor with all the various stacks of boxes, etc. accurately located. I have only basically attempted to model the sniper's nest area. But I do have the entire basic outline of the TSBD building modeled. The software program is limited and I have to improvise a lot.

Here's some images that I think will at least show you the idea that seems to me to show how LHO could have stayed out of BRW's sight while standing approximately where Rowland described.

First, here's an image from Rowland's viewpoint angle that shows a character with a rifle back a bit from the western sixth floor TSBD window. The character is positioned to be looking in the direction of Rowland and the intersection of Main & Houston. I was impressed and satisfied that the same areas of the character that can be seen through the open part of the window is close to what Rowland said he saw.





Next is a screenshot from the video you provided a link to that shows stacks of boxes near the area that Rowland's rifle man was reportedly seen. I have drawn a red arrow to indicate the stack that I believe is relevant to this exercise. There are some DPD photos that were taken shortly after the assassination that show these boxes (and their positions) clearer. But I haven't yet located the DPD photos (I am not very well organized).






And next is an image that shows how LHO could have positioned himself relative to BRW's position so that he stayed hidden from BRW's viewpoint. In the top right frame (top floorplan view), the "virtual visitor" (aka: camera position) is positioned about where BRW indicated he ate his lunch. The rifle man is in the same position he is in the Rowland viewpoint image above. The stack of boxes effectively hide the rifle man from BRW's viewpoint as can be seen in the lower right frame. This model is rather crude at this point, but I believe that it shows the general idea, and that it could have happened this way.




Here is the same view as the BRW viewpoint above, but with the top three boxes made invisible. The boxes are the same size as the ones surrounding the sniper's nest. You can see the rifle man character is effectively hidden from BRW's viewpoint by the stack of boxes.

[Lance Payette]

Thanks, Charles.

Here, mostly from an FBI booklet, are numerous photos of the TSBD on a single page: https://www.tpaak.com/texas-school-book-depository.

It's interesting what a box-filled mess the TSBD was. It really was more of a warehouse than an office building.

It also occurs to me that what we call the sniper's nest really wasn't much of a construction project. Oswald may have walked along the entire bank of windows before deciding that was the spot.

[Charles Collins]

Thanks, Charles.

Here, mostly from an FBI booklet, are numerous photos of the TSBD on a single page: https://www.tpaak.com/texas-school-book-depository.

It's interesting what a box-filled mess the TSBD was. It really was more of a warehouse than an office building.

It also occurs to me that what we call the sniper's nest really wasn't much of a construction project. Oswald may have walked along the entire bank of windows before deciding that was the spot.

Thanks for the link. Yes, I think that there apparently was plenty of stacks of boxes of books for LHO to slither behind and hide from BRW.

My understanding is that most of the stacks of boxes surrounding the sniper’s nest were placed there by the flooring crew. They had been temporarily put there to clear the floor where they were working on the west end of the sixth floor. I think that LHO’s portion was probably mostly just the boxes at the sniper’s window itself. Quick and not too difficult. It is interesting that the two smaller boxes of rolling readers came from the center of the sixth floor. No one (except LHO) had any apparent reason to move those boxes to the sniper’s nest area.

I think that LHO probably had only a day or two to devise a plan. We have had many years to look at everything. And I am still impressed with how well his planning worked. Just take one aspect for example. The location of LHO’s clipboard when it was found is shown in one of the photos on the page you provided a link to. That location is most likely very close to where LHO stashed the rifle when he arrived at the TSBD on the morning of 11/22/63. So, I think that if a group of workers had gathered on the sixth floor to watch the motorcade, LHO might have had a contingency plan that might have allowed him to quietly grab the rifle and go up the nearby stairs to the seventh floor (which was reportedly rarely used for much). Those stairs going up are adjacent to the clipboard location and shown on the right side of that photo. I think it might have been feasible for LHO to grab the rifle and go up the stairs to the seventh floor without anyone else on the sixth floor even noticing (especially if they were looking out at Dealey Plaza for the motorcade and talking amongst each other). My guess is that LHO was in the process of retrieving his rifle on the west end of the sixth floor and was more or less confined to that end of the floor due to BRW coming back up to the sixth floor (until BRW left that floor of course).