JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
The deformation of CE-399 adds credibility to the SBT
David Von Pein:
Dr. Fackler's 1992 Report....
https://drive.google.com/file/d/11_V0fGaOGHupUb_CK0FCpCs1buM-o7e-/view
David Von Pein:
Related Discussions....
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2016/07/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1157.html
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/04/index.html#CE399
Michael T. Griffith:
--- Quote from: David Von Pein on August 03, 2025, 09:08:10 PM ---Dr. Fackler's 1992 Report....
https://drive.google.com/file/d/11_V0fGaOGHupUb_CK0FCpCs1buM-o7e-/view
--- End quote ---
This is downright comical and is so typical of the phony tests that people like Fackler will conduct to try to salvage the SBT.
First of all, not one of Fackler's test bullets passed through a simulated human neck and then destroyed 5 inches of rib bone while tearing through a simulated human chest before striking the cadaver radius bones. Not one. Let me repeat that so the phony nature of Fackler's test can sink in: Fackler made no effort to simulate a human neck, a human chest, and a rib bone. Not one of his bullets hit anything before they hit the cadaver radius bones. Fackler simply shot cadaver radius bones with bullets whose velocity had been lowered down to 1100-1300 FPS!
Are you kidding me? How can anyone cite this test with a straight face? Did you or any other SBT believer even bother to actually read Fackler's article on his SBT test? How, David, did you miss the fact that none of his test bullets hit anything before hitting the cadaver wrists?
Of course, Fackler rigged the test because he knew full well that if his test bullets first had to transit a human neck and then tear through a human chest and demolish 5 inches of rib bone in the process, the bullets would emerge markedly deformed, just as they did in the AAT test and in Lattimer's test.
I repeat again:
-- In Dr. Dolce's SBT test for the WC, even 6.5 mm FMJ bullets fired into cotton wadding emerged with more deformity than CE 399.
-- In the 1967 CBS test, not one of the 6.5 mm FMJ bullets that merely passed through the 12-inch gelatin block before hitting cadaver wrists never had enough velocity to penetrate the simulated thigh, and some of them never even managed to exit the wrists.
-- In the 1992 AAT SBT test, a 6.5 mm FMJ bullet was fired into two gelatin blocks. The second gelatin block contained animal bones to simulate the shattering of a rib bone and the smashing of a wrist bone. The bullet transited the first gelatin block and penetrated deep into the second block and struck the animal bones. It emerged markedly more deformed than CE 399.
-- In Lattimer's SBT test, one of the test bullets was split at the nose in several places and was markedly deformed, much more deformed than CE 399, and this wasn't even one of the bullets that struck all three simulation objects! Lattimer threw away all the bullets that hit all three simulation objects. Gee, I wonder why.
Michael T. Griffith:
--- Quote from: Michael T. Griffith on August 05, 2025, 01:36:49 PM ---This is downright comical and is so typical of the phony tests that people like Fackler will conduct to try to salvage the SBT.
First of all, not one of Fackler's test bullets passed through a simulated human neck and then destroyed 5 inches of rib bone while tearing through a simulated human chest before striking the cadaver radius bones. Not one. Let me repeat that so the phony nature of Fackler's test can sink in: Fackler made no effort to simulate a human neck, a human chest, and a rib bone. Not one of his bullets hit anything before they hit the cadaver radius bones. Fackler simply shot cadaver radius bones with bullets whose velocity had been lowered down to 1100-1300 FPS!
Are you kidding me? How can anyone cite this test with a straight face? Did you or any other SBT believer even bother to actually read Fackler's article on his SBT test? How, David, did you miss the fact that none of his test bullets hit anything before hitting the cadaver wrists?
Of course, Fackler rigged the test because he knew full well that if his test bullets first had to transit a human neck and then tear through a human chest and demolish 5 inches of rib bone in the process, the bullets would emerge markedly deformed, just as they did in the AAT test and in Lattimer's test.
I repeat again:
-- In Dr. Dolce's SBT test for the WC, even 6.5 mm FMJ bullets fired into cotton wadding emerged with more deformity than CE 399.
-- In the 1967 CBS test, not one of the 6.5 mm FMJ bullets that merely passed through the 12-inch gelatin block before hitting cadaver wrists never had enough velocity to penetrate the simulated thigh, and some of them never even managed to exit the wrists.
-- In the 1992 AAT SBT test, a 6.5 mm FMJ bullet was fired into two gelatin blocks. The second gelatin block contained animal bones to simulate the shattering of a rib bone and the smashing of a wrist bone. The bullet transited the first gelatin block and penetrated deep into the second block and struck the animal bones. It emerged markedly more deformed than CE 399.
-- In Lattimer's SBT test, one of the test bullets was split at the nose in several places and was markedly deformed, much more deformed than CE 399, and this wasn't even one of the bullets that struck all three simulation objects! Lattimer threw away all the bullets that hit all three simulation objects. Gee, I wonder why.
--- End quote ---
I should add that Fackler's phony SBT test also failed to include a simulated human thigh and made no effort to see if any of his test bullets could penetrate a human thigh after shattering a cadaver radius bone.
Yet, SBT believers still cite Fackler's bogus test as "evidence" that the SBT is credible. Some even go further into fiction and claim that Fackler's test "proves" the SBT is true.
This reminds me of when Dr. Cyril Wecht challenged the other members of the HSCA FPP (1) to produce a single case where an FMJ bullet had done the damage attributed to CE 399 and emerged with its lands and grooves intact and with a loss of only 3-4 grains from its substance, and (2) to conduct a realistic SBT test. The other FPP members never did present a single case that resembled the SBT, and they refused to conduct an SBT test.
Jack Nessan:
--- Quote from: Michael T. Griffith on August 06, 2025, 04:42:03 PM ---I should add that Fackler's phony SBT test also failed to include a simulated human thigh and made no effort to see if any of his test bullets could penetrate a human thigh after shattering a cadaver radius bone.
Yet, SBT believers still cite Fackler's bogus test as "evidence" that the SBT is credible. Some even go further into fiction and claim that Fackler's test "proves" the SBT is true.
This reminds me of when Dr. Cyril Wecht challenged the other members of the HSCA FPP (1) to produce a single case where an FMJ bullet had done the damage attributed to CE 399 and emerged with its lands and grooves intact and with a loss of only 3-4 grains from its substance, and (2) to conduct a realistic SBT test. The other FPP members never did present a single case that resembled the SBT, and they refused to conduct an SBT test.
--- End quote ---
This reminds me of when Dr. Cyril Wecht challenged the other members of the HSCA FPP (1) to produce a single case where an FMJ bullet had done the damage attributed to CE 399
Can it be assumed that Wecht's challenge would be specific to bullets designed similar to the carcano bullet with all the same flight characteristics before and after striking various mediums.
Didn’t the carcano hit on several sides instead of all impacts occurring just directly point on. Is that not the reason that the bullet looks the way it does?
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