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Offline Lance Payette

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #80 on: May 13, 2025, 09:13:44 PM »
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What is the source of that? 
Still, Frazier has absolutely nothing to worry about and no reason to lie, whatsoever.
If he is caught in any lie it will lead to trouble.  Besides, what is the lie?

See the video I posted. I believe he's told a pretty consistent story all along. He is clearly bitter. The source of what I posted was some CT site - something about "The Girl that Killed Kennedy."

The lie, if there was one, would be that the package was shorter than it actually was and that Oswald carried it differently than he actually did. As Charles notes, that would not be fodder for a perjury charge. I can see twin motivations - I'm not going to help these damn police one bit and I'm not going to say anything that provides a basis for more suspicion toward me.

With the .303 rifle, clip and ammunition at his sister's house, I'm not sure it's accurate to say he "has absolutely nothing to worry about and no reason to lie" a mere week after the assassination. I would agree that by the time of the WC, he could have played ball and said "Oh, I don't know, maybe it was longer than I thought and maybe it was protruding when I saw him carrying it." But he didn't, which is why I'm willing to chalk up his observations to an innocent eyewitness mistake.

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #80 on: May 13, 2025, 09:13:44 PM »


Online Tom Graves

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #81 on: May 13, 2025, 09:13:53 PM »
Why would Frazier lie? - he had nothing to be afraid of (and he wasn't).

Okay.

Offline Michael Capasse

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #82 on: May 13, 2025, 09:24:55 PM »
".... I'm willing to chalk up his observations to an innocent eyewitness mistake."

There's that preset again. The distance from the armpit past the ear is no innocent eyewitness mistake.
How do you mistakenly NOT see something?

Lee walked ahead of Frazier - at one point 50 feet - They have about 2 blocks to walk from the Aux parking lot.
Frazier didn't have to pay attention to the bag -- BUT just has to look at the figure of the man walking ahead. 
There was no bag along side his head.


« Last Edit: May 13, 2025, 09:31:06 PM by Michael Capasse »

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #82 on: May 13, 2025, 09:24:55 PM »


Offline Lance Payette

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #83 on: May 13, 2025, 09:27:10 PM »
This is quite mind-blowing. I admit I'm not entirely sober at the moment, but I can find NOTHING except Frazier's description of this incident. Did Fritz, Stovall, Rose or anyone else discuss this incident at all??? Is there any reasonably contemporaneous documentation of it? Frazier seems entirely too unsophisticated and folksy to have invented it, but then any number of UFO hoaxers have seemed too unsophisticated and folksy to pull off the hoaxes they did. It isn't even touched upon in Frazier's WC testimony.

Offline Lance Payette

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #84 on: May 13, 2025, 09:36:12 PM »
There's that preset again. The distance from the armpit past the ear is no innocent eyewitness mistake.
How do you mistakenly NOT see something?

Lee walk ahead of Frazier - at one point 50 feet - They have about 2 blocks to walk from the Aux parking lot.
Frazier didn't have to pay attention to the bag -- BUT just has to look at the figure of the man walking ahead. 
There was no bag along side his head.

No, no preset. As Dan Rather demonstrated in the video Duncan posted, a protrusion above the shoulder isn't screamingly obvious. Moreover, yours truly tends to think the protrusion was at the bottom. It's quite easy to mistakenly not see something or misinterpret what you're seeing. Eyewitnesses do it all the time. Again, we have to fit this supposed observation into the totality of what occurred. It is not reasonable to allow Frazier's observation to drive the epistemological bus. This was precisely the point of my 2021 Ford Bronco example. It's POSSIBLE Frazier didn't make a mistake and the package didn't contain the disassembled rifle, but this is not the most PLAUSIBLE or REASONABLE conclusion. That's not my "preset" but the conclusion of a vast number of folks who have investigated the case. If you want to insist it wasn't the rifle, you need at least a reasonably plausible alternative explanation of all the facts and circumstances as set forth in my original post.

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #84 on: May 13, 2025, 09:36:12 PM »


Offline Michael Capasse

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #85 on: May 13, 2025, 10:15:11 PM »
No, no preset. As Dan Rather demonstrated in the video Duncan posted, a protrusion above the shoulder isn't screamingly obvious. Moreover, yours truly tends to think the protrusion was at the bottom. It's quite easy to mistakenly not see something or misinterpret what you're seeing. Eyewitnesses do it all the time. Again, we have to fit this supposed observation into the totality of what occurred. It is not reasonable to allow Frazier's observation to drive the epistemological bus. This was precisely the point of my 2021 Ford Bronco example. It's POSSIBLE Frazier didn't make a mistake and the package didn't contain the disassembled rifle, but this is not the most PLAUSIBLE or REASONABLE conclusion. That's not my "preset" but the conclusion of a vast number of folks who have investigated the case. If you want to insist it wasn't the rifle, you need at least a reasonably plausible alternative explanation of all the facts and circumstances as set forth in my original post.

Rather doesn't say what size his "exact" Carcano is.
Frazier is very clear how it was held and sure it was palmed at the base - it should then extend to the ear.

Mr. FRAZIER - I said from where I noticed he had it cupped in his hands. And I don't see how you could have it anywhere other than under your armpit,
because if you had it cupped in your hand it would stick over it.

Mr. BALL - Could he have carried it this way?

Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir. Never in front here. Like that. Now, that is what I was talking to you about.
No, I say he couldn't because if he had you would have seen the package sticking up like that.
From what I seen walking behind he had it under his arm and you couldn't tell that he had a package from the back.

Mr. BALL - When you cupped the bottom of your package in the hands, will you stand up, again, please, and the upper part
of the package is not under the armpit, the top of the package extends almost up to the level of your ear.

Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2025, 11:01:24 PM by Michael Capasse »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #86 on: May 13, 2025, 11:15:33 PM »
Why does Frazier need to lie?
Is he lying about "curtain rods"? - or is it the size of the package.

Lee told the interrogators:
" I didn't tell Buell Wesley Frazier anything about bringing back some curtain rods."

Huh?

Both statements can't be true and either Frazier lied about the contents or Oswald lied in trying to save his ass.
Also where Oswald placed the package in Frazier's car, both Frazier and Linnie said in the back seat but obviously the package was way too long to be kept up front, so Oswald lied and said he kept his "lunch" up front.
Now we have a dilemma, who was more likely to lie, innocent Frazier or double Murderer Oswald? Hmmm?

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Online Charles Collins

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #87 on: May 13, 2025, 11:28:01 PM »
LHO’s prints on the bag (CE142) seem to me to support the idea that LHO carried the package into the TSBD with the right hand palm print (CE636) on the bottom of the package (per BWF) and the left hand index finger (CE633) elsewhere on the package. At this point in time I am not sure exactly where on the bag the left index finger print was located CE633. If anyone has that information handy please let us know. I can see the photo that shows the portion of the package that the fingerprint was found on. But I do not know what section of the overall package that section is from.

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #87 on: May 13, 2025, 11:28:01 PM »