Walk me through this, curtain rod fans

[Michael Capasse]

FWIW

27 inches. Carried in his right hand ONLY.
thank you

[Lance Payette]

Why does Frazier need to lie?
Is he lying about "curtain rods"? - or is it the size of the package.

Lee told the interrogators:
" I didn't tell Buell Wesley Frazier anything about bringing back some curtain rods."

My best estimate is that Frazier isn't lying at all. He is honestly reporting what Oswald said and what he (Frazier) observed. He would be much more likely to accurately remember Oswald's curtain rod tale since Oswald gave it as an explanation at the TSBD in response to a specific question, Frazier repeated it to Randle that evening, and Oswald repeated in answer to a specific question the next morning. Ditto for Oswald saying he was going to buy his lunch, since here again this was in response to a specific question and was contrary to Oswald's usual practice when returning from Irving. There is no disconnect between Frazier accurately recalling what Oswald said and being mistaken in his observation of the package.

It is Oswald who is lying because, as I've previously suggested, he (1) knew there were no curtain rods and (2) a package of curtain rods sounds suspiciously like a disassembled rifle. It's also rather telling how quickly he agreed with Holmes' absurd suggestion that he might have brought a sandwich and an apple in a full-sized grocery bag.

There is the possibility, as we've previously noted, of Frazier being freaked by his own arrest and ownership of the even longer Enfield .303. There is at least the possibility that he, with Randle's sisterly support, wanted to distance himself from any package that could possibly have been a rifle. This would support why he and Randle both insisted the package was too short and why he said Oswald carried it the way he did. I don't find it likely that unsophisticated characters like Frazier and Randle would have held up as well as they did under intense questioning (and even pressure) if they were lying, so I lean toward an honest mistake by Frazier and Randle of the sort that eyewitnesses make all the time.

If Frazier and Randle had insisted Oswald was carrying nothing, or an ordinary little lunch sack, the problem would be much larger than it is.

[Lance Payette]

made up  - put to a preset conclusion
Not consistent with what Frazier described.

Eyewitnesses make mistakes ALL THE TIME. An eyewitness says the suspect was driving a dark gray vehicle with Texas plates ending in 079. In fact, the evidence establishes that the suspect, who has been identified by fingerprints, DNA samples and video footage, was driving a 2021 Ford Bronco that simply appears dark in the black-and-white footage. He in fact owns a 2021 Ford Bronco, but it is maroon and has plates ending in 077. The jury concludes on the basis of all the evidence that the suspect is guilty and the eyewitness was telling in good faith what she thought she saw but she was simply mistaken.

Is the jury's conclusion that the suspect was driving a maroon 2021 Ford Bronco with plates ending in 077 "made up  "? Should the jury have acquitted the suspect on the basis of the eyewitness's testimony? Should the jury have concluded that there must have been a second suspect driving a dark gray vehicle with plates ending in 079?

[Charles Collins]

I am trapped inside the house by 60 mph winds and thus have given a bit more thought to Frazier's possible motive for the "short package" story. It now seems pretty obvious.

Some of the early reports on the assassination identified the weapon as a British Enfield .303. My source for this is a post by Mick Purdy at Greg Parker's old site, wherein he sounded as though he knew what he was talking about. I also found this: "NBC and WBAP radio identified it as a British Enfield .303." https://assassinationresearch.com/v1n2/gtds.html.

Frazier was arrested as a conspirator in the assassination on the evening of Nov. 22. Fritz actually asked him to sign a confession. When he was interrogated, the police had already confiscated at Randle's house Frazier's British Enfield No. 4, Mark 1 rifle with a clip and ten rounds of .303 ammunition, with which they confronted Frazier. Here is the DPD property clerk's receipt:



One can imagine the trauma of this ordeal for the 19-year-old, minimum-wage, living-with-his-sister Frazier.

The Enfield No. 4, Mark 1 is one of the classic WW2 rifles. You can watch a slightly goofy video about it here:

It was 44.5" long - more than 4" longer than the Carcano. I couldn't find a disassembled length, but you can be sure it was at least as long as the Carcano.

When Frazier was interviewed next to the car at Randle's house by FBI agents Odum and McNeely on 12-1-63 (not 12-2 as I stated, which is the date of their report) - little more than a week after the assassination - he was surely still rattled from his arrest. NO WAY was the package going to be one that might have contained a Carcano or an Enfield. Randle, knowing what her brother had experienced, went along with his story.

That's my theory anyway.

Frazier was arrested as a conspirator in the assassination on the evening of Nov. 22. Fritz actually asked him to sign a confession.


What is known about the “confession”? Just that BWF claimed it to be a confession? I can understand that they might ask him to sign a statement. And it would be understandable that, based on his interrogation, they would include that he transported LHO (and a long package) to the TSBD on 11/22/63. They might even try to include in the statement, based on other circumstantial evidence, that the long package contained the rifle. I can understand why BWF would balk at signing such a statement. And if this is something like what actually transpired, I can understand BWF subsequently trying to claim the package was too short for a rifle. I doubt that a perjury charge would result from his “estimating” that it was a shorter package. After all, that’s only a subjective estimate, not an out and out lie.

[Lance Payette]

Undoubtedly others are more knowledgeable than I about the incident. I just recall that it almost turned into a fistfight. This is one description:

"Frazier is taken to Dallas Police headquarters and placed in a small interrogation room for more than six hours.  He is interrogated for hours at a time by two different teams of detectives who insist that he’s a killer, although there is nothing in his past to remotely suggest that he could be capable of committing such a crime.  Frazier doesn’t have so much as a traffic ticket on his record.  Frazier holds firm and denies the charges.  Finally, Captain Will Fritz, frustrated by Frazier’s resolve, comes into the interrogation room with a typewritten confession and demands that Frazier sign in it, without even reading it.  Frazier refuses, causing Fritz to lose his temper.  When Fritz tries to hit him, Frazier parries the blow and prepares to defend himself.  At that point, Fritz throws up his hands in frustration and leaves the room.  At around 3 a.m. the next morning, police let Frazier go."

If that's accurate, it would certainly have rattled me when I was 19 years old!

(There does seem to be remarkably little documentation or discussion of the incident, so hopefully someone will know more than I do.)

[Charles Collins]

Undoubtedly others are more knowledgeable than I about the incident. I just recall that it almost turned into a fistfight. This is one description:

"Frazier is taken to Dallas Police headquarters and placed in a small interrogation room for more than six hours.  He is interrogated for hours at a time by two different teams of detectives who insist that he’s a killer, although there is nothing in his past to remotely suggest that he could be capable of committing such a crime.  Frazier doesn’t have so much as a traffic ticket on his record.  Frazier holds firm and denies the charges.  Finally, Captain Will Fritz, frustrated by Frazier’s resolve, comes into the interrogation room with a typewritten confession and demands that Frazier sign in it, without even reading it.  Frazier refuses, causing Fritz to lose his temper.  When Fritz tries to hit him, Frazier parries the blow and prepares to defend himself.  At that point, Fritz throws up his hands in frustration and leaves the room.  At around 3 a.m. the next morning, police let Frazier go."

If that's accurate, it would certainly have rattled me when I was 19 years old!

(There does seem to be remarkably little documentation or discussion of the incident, so hopefully someone will know more than I do.)

Thanks, yes that’s about all I have read about it also. Regardless of whether or not all of that happened the way it has been suggested, I can certainly understand BWF asserting his position that he did not know what was in the package. If the DPD was looking at him as potentially an accomplice, or even if BWF only sensed that they were, then it is understandable to me that he would deny the that bag appeared to be the same one he saw and then become more uncooperative.

[Lance Payette]

Thanks, yes that’s about all I have read about it also. Regardless of whether or not all of that happened the way it has been suggested, I can certainly understand BWF asserting his position that he did not know what was in the package. If the DPD was looking at him as potentially an accomplice, or even if BWF only sensed that they were, then it is understandable to me that he would deny the that bag appeared to be the same one he saw and then become more uncooperative.

Frazier describes the incident beginning shortly after the 19-minute mark here:

https://aarclibrary.org/buell-wesley-frazier-recollections-and-reflections-lee-harvey-oswald/