Walk me through this, curtain rod fans

[Lance Payette]

I am trapped inside the house by 60 mph winds and thus have given a bit more thought to Frazier's possible motive for the "short package" story. It now seems pretty obvious.

Some of the early reports on the assassination identified the weapon as a British Enfield .303. My source for this is a post by Mick Purdy at Greg Parker's old site, wherein he sounded as though he knew what he was talking about. I also found this: "NBC and WBAP radio identified it as a British Enfield .303." https://assassinationresearch.com/v1n2/gtds.html.

Frazier was arrested as a conspirator in the assassination on the evening of Nov. 22. Fritz actually asked him to sign a confession. When he was interrogated, the police had already confiscated at Randle's house Frazier's British Enfield No. 4, Mark 1 rifle with a clip and ten rounds of .303 ammunition, with which they confronted Frazier. Here is the DPD property clerk's receipt:



One can imagine the trauma of this ordeal for the 19-year-old, minimum-wage, living-with-his-sister Frazier.

The Enfield No. 4, Mark 1 is one of the classic WW2 rifles. You can watch a slightly goofy video about it here:

It was 44.5" long - more than 4" longer than the Carcano. I couldn't find a disassembled length, but you can be sure it was at least as long as the Carcano.

When Frazier was interviewed next to the car at Randle's house by FBI agents Odum and McNeely on 12-1-63 (not 12-2 as I stated, which is the date of their report) - little more than a week after the assassination - he was surely still rattled from his arrest. NO WAY was the package going to be one that might have contained a Carcano or an Enfield. Randle, knowing what her brother had experienced, went along with his story.

That's my theory anyway.

[Lance Payette]

You make some very good points there Charles, the difference between the disassembled rifle and the actual length is only a few inches and the bag was made of paper. The reasoning for the rifle being broken down was to fit the bag but what if the bag was actually long enough and Oswald's bag had both ends sealed and Oswald  simply cut off one end to access the rifle? The end of the bag seems to be squared off so I don't know how practical my theory is but hey it's food for thought?
And your observation re the "potential rattling sounds" is interesting and indeed if the rifle was disassembled then the separate parts would need to be secured tightly and maybe this extra wrapping is what prevented Cadigan from discovering a distinct connection between the rifle and scratches or dents in the bag?

JohnM

If it were not disassembled, the difference in length seemingly would be enough that it would push us away from an "innocent mistake" by Frazier and Randle and toward "flat-out lying" by Frazier and Randle, perhaps for the reason suggested by me immediately above. On the other hand, I would think a disassembled rifle would more plausibly resemble curtain rods. The FBI guy was able to assemble the Carcano in six minutes with a coin and reassemble it even faster, so disassembling it would not have been a major task. (David Lifton swore he had a witness who encountered Oswald on the elevator and that Oswald said the package was a "fishing pole"!!!)

[Steve Howsley]

As the rifle he received was a few inches longer that the one he ordered it's likely IMO that Oswald didn't take it into account when constructing the bag, hence the tight fit.

[Tom Graves]

You make some very good points there Charles, the difference between the disassembled rifle and the actual length is only a few inches and the bag was made of paper. The reasoning for the rifle being broken down was to fit the bag but what if the bag was actually long enough and Oswald's bag had both ends sealed and Oswald  simply cut off one end to access the rifle? The end of the bag seems to be squared off so I don't know how practical my theory is but hey it's food for thought?
And your observation re the "potential rattling sounds" is interesting and indeed if the rifle was disassembled then the separate parts would need to be secured tightly and maybe this extra wrapping is what prevented Cadigan from discovering a distinct connection between the rifle and scratches or dents in the bag?

JohnM

JohnM,

Whether Oswald made the bag at the TSBD or at Russophile Ruthie's, he probably got the paper for it at the former and simply underestimated how much he needed.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

This is just my opinion, but I don’t believe that there is conclusive evidence that the rifle was disassembled in order to take it into the TSBD. I can think of a few ways to conceal the short section of the end of the muzzle of a fully assembled rifle that would have been sticking out of the open end of the homemade bag. A small lunch sack would have covered it very easily. And even if it stuck out exposed, there are ways to carry it so that the end of the muzzle would be hidden inside his jacket sleeve or jacket front. This would also eliminate the time needed to reassemble it and also eliminate potential rattling sounds that might attract unwanted attention to the package.  But, either way, I think that the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming that LHO snuck the rifle into the TSBD the morning of 11/22/63. Just my two cents worth.

I'll toss this out to add to our confusion: Marina said that the rifle was wrapped in paper of some sort/type and then placed in the blanket.

So, could he have used that paper to cover the top of the assembled rifle? No extra paper was found so what happened to it?

[Lance Payette]

Michael Paine testified extensively about the blanket. He repeatedly refers to "the package" inside the blanket, but it's not clear if by "the package" he simply means "the items." He did have the impression the package was wrapped with a couple of strings, but he also says he doesn't think the package was wrapped in paper because "when we practiced wrapping that rifle yesterday I would have guessed that any paper around the barrel in there, which I could feel with some clarity, would have crinkled."

[John Mytton]

As the rifle he received was a few inches longer that the one he ordered it's likely IMO that Oswald didn't take it into account when constructing the bag, hence the tight fit.

Hi Steve, good to see you posting.



JohnM

[John Mytton]

JohnM,

Whether Oswald made the bag at the TSBD or at Russophile Ruthie's, he probably got the paper for it at the former and simply underestimated how much he needed.

The paper that made up Oswald's sack(CE 142) showed the same characteristics as paper(CE 677) obtained on the 22nd but IIRC there was a discrepancy with paper obtained at a later date which simply meant that the rolls were changed.

Mr. EISENBERG. Have you now reviewed all the points in which you compared the paper sack obtained from the TSBD, Exhibit 142, and the known sample obtained on November 22, Exhibit 677?
Mr. CADIGAN. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did you find any points of nonidentity?
Mr. CADIGAN. No; I found none.
Mr. EISENBERG. They were identical on every point on which you measured them?
Mr. CADIGAN. Yes.





The tape that was on CE 142 went through the dispenser on the first floor shipping department, this tape showed a number of evenly spaced pock marks which is indicative of having to pass through the dispenser and then the tape was wetted as it passed out of the machine, so I believe Oswald had to have made the rifle sack at the Depository. Now I'm not familiar enough with the machine to know if the tape could pass through the dispenser and be removed without having water applied, or if the water reservoir could be removed?

Mr. CADIGAN. Once it is in that machine then that wheel will mark the tape going through the dispenser just before it wets it and you paste it down.

West who worked the tape dispenser was asked if you could get the tape out without the tape getting water on it and he says you have to take the tape out of the machine because the tape within the machine has to get wet before the tape is removed but he never elaborates on the possibility of having no water in the machine or a method of removing the water and/or the reservoir?

Mr. BELIN - If I wanted to pull the tape, pull off a piece without getting water on it, would I just lift it up without going over the wet roller and get the tape without getting it wet?
Mr. WEST - You would have to take it out. You would have to take it out of the machine. See, it's put on there and then run through a little clamp that holds it down, and you pull it, well, then the water, it gets water on it.

Another problem is that West rarely left the area, at lunch he washed up and I guess occasionally he went to the toilet which leaves only before and after work.

West had an established routine of getting to work 5 to 10 minutes early, easy for Oswald to work around.

Mr. BELIN - Do you remember what time you got to work that particular morning?
Mr. WEST - It was about 10 minutes to 8. I always be 5 or 10 minutes early.

And while at work, West made his coffee in the same department, kept his lunch by the wrapping machine and seemingly sat right down while he was there and ate his lunch,

Mr. BELIN - Where did you go when you got to work?
Mr. WEST - Well, When I first got to work I always made coffee in the morning at the store. This is the first thing I do in the morning.
Mr. BELIN - Where did you make the coffee?
Mr. WEST - Sir?
Mr. BELIN - Where did you make the coffee?
Mr. WEST - Well, it is down on the first floor in the same department where I wrap mail at.

Mr. BELIN - Where did you get your lunch?
Mr. WEST - Well, I always kept my lunch right there close by my machine, by my wrapping machine that I use all the time, that I always kept my lunch. I have a little place underneath and I keep it there all the time.

Mr. BELIN - Now, after you quit for lunch, you made the coffee then?
Mr. WEST - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Were did you make the coffee?
Mr. WEST - I made the coffee right there close to the wrapping mail table where I wrap mail.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Mr. WEST - Well, I sit down to eat my lunch.

JohnM