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Author Topic: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans  (Read 1242 times)

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2025, 07:19:56 PM »
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Great - I either didn't know that or had forgotten it. I was thinking of the visit a week or two later where Odum tried to replicate the sack with Frazier and Randle and she came up with the 27". The suspicion, I would think, would have to be that she was trying to make her story conform more closely to Frazier's.

Why wouldn't you consider that Bookhout just misreported what she told him?

Yes, It would have been nice if the Warren Commission had asked Randle about the discrepancy.  But they were more interested in furthering their predetermined conclusion.

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2025, 07:19:56 PM »


Offline Lance Payette

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2025, 07:51:38 PM »
Of course you do.

The rational conclusion is that the contents of the package are unknown and unknowable.  "Not curtain rods" does not equal "disassembled Carcano rifle".

Once again, you demonstrate the astonishing shallowness of your thinking - which was precisely the point I made about the arguments of internet atheists.

We do have (1) the curtain rod testimony as outlined in my original post and the questions it raises, which demand the most plausible answers we can give them; (2) Oswald's story of having brought a sandwich and apple, possibly (when suggested by Holmes) in a very large grocery bag, the plausibility of which (and lack of evidence for which) we can assess;  (3) the rifle and bag ostensibly found on the sixth floor, the evidentiary value of which we can assess; and (4) the totality of the circumstances concerning the purchase of the rifle, Oswald's pre- and post-assassination behavior, and other considerations that provide a lens through which to assess items 1-3.

No, we do not know to an ontological certainty what the package Oswald brought into the TSBD contained, just as we do not know to an ontological certainty that there is (or isn't) a deity. We can, however, assess all the available evidence, make the most reasonable inferences we can, and arrive at a high level of conviction that the package contained the disassembled Carcano. I have a difficult time articulating any alternative CT-oriented theory that seems even vaguely as plausible - indeed, that isn't as comically ad hoc, speculative and agenda-driven as those Greg Doudna has suggested.

In this thread, I invited alternative theories that struck CTers as reasonably plausible. Instead, I get crickets or non sequiturs like yours.

This is the internet atheist game. One can't know to an ontological certainty that there is a deity, hence any belief in a deity is, ipso facto, mindless faith. Uh, no. One can reach an informed conviction (including, yes, an informed conviction there is no deity) on the basis of long and intense study of philosophy, theology, science, human experience and everything else that may seem relevant. Ditto with every aspect of the JFKA.

Thank you for this opportunity to expose the game you are playing and the shallowness of your thinking. I don't suppose it will shut you up since you appear to derive some weird satisfaction from this game, but I am confident that the shallowness of your thinking has indeed been exposed.

Offline Lance Payette

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2025, 07:57:40 PM »
Why wouldn't you consider that Bookhout just misreported what she told him?

Yes, It would have been nice if the Warren Commission had asked Randle about the discrepancy.  But they were more interested in furthering their predetermined conclusion.

They "furthered their predetermined conclusion" by allowing Randle to demonstrate and testify at length about a 28.5" bag? I don't think that quite works. One might think that at least getting her original 36" estimate on the record would have been more useful in "furthering their predetermined conclusion."

I find it useful to ask myself "Does this make any sense?" before I hit "Post," but maybe I'm just fussy.

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2025, 07:57:40 PM »


Offline Michael Capasse

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2025, 08:11:27 PM »
They put the bag in front of her.
It was too long.

Mr. BALL. Now, with reference to the width of this bag, does that look about the width of the bag that he was carrying?
Mrs. RANDLE. I would say so; yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. What about length?
Mrs. RANDLE. You mean the entire bag?

Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mrs. RANDLE. There again you have the problem of all this down here. It was folded down, of course, if you would take it from the bottom--

Mr. BALL. Fold it to about the size that you think it might be.
Mrs. RANDLE. This is the bottom here, right. This is the bottom, this part down here.

Mr. BALL. I believe so, but I am not sure. But let's say it is.
Mrs. RANDLE. And this goes this way, right? Do you want me to hold it?

Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mrs. RANDLE. About this.

Mr. BALL. Is that about right? That is 28 1/2 inches.
Mrs. RANDLE. I measured 27 last time.

Mr. BALL. You measured 27 once before?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir
« Last Edit: May 10, 2025, 08:36:12 PM by Michael Capasse »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2025, 08:41:27 PM »
No, we do not know to an ontological certainty what the package Oswald brought into the TSBD contained,

That's the overstatement of the year.  You don't know to ANY certainty whatsoever.  At best you can make a weak argument that it wasn't curtain rods.

Quote
In this thread, I invited alternative theories that struck CTers as reasonably plausible. Instead, I get crickets or non sequiturs like yours.

Who do you think you're fooling?  What you are doing is the usual LN shift-the-burden game:  prove that it was something else, or disassembled Carcano wins by default.

I don't claim to know if there is a deity or not.  There is just no good reason to believe in one.  Just like there is no good reason to believe that Oswald killed JFK.

"Oh yeah, prove it's false" is not a good reason to believe something.  You can try to dress it up in all kinds of flowery language and philosophical deepities in order to feel arrogant and superior, but that doesn't turn it into a good reason. Nor does it make you right.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2025, 08:43:40 PM by John Iacoletti »

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2025, 08:41:27 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2025, 08:43:10 PM »
They "furthered their predetermined conclusion" by allowing Randle to demonstrate and testify at length about a 28.5" bag?

Did that change their conclusion at all?  No, they just declared her "mistaken".  That's how predetermined conclusions work.

Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2025, 11:26:12 PM »
Someone who is truly and honestly neutral on what happened, is agnostic on what happened that day in Dallas and has no set opinion on whether it was Oswald alone or a cast of thousands, would, on the bag question (and many others), challenge every explanation as to what it contained and not one. Viz., that it contained a rifle, that it contained curtain rods, that it contained a lunch, or that it contained something else. Each theory would be challenged.

But we don't see that here (or with the other questions). We have the challenge against the "bag had the rifle" theory but not the curtain rod or lunch or something else theory. This from the person who says he has no theory as to what happened (and isn't interested, he adds, in any one of them anyway). The intellectual inconsistency is obvious to everyone.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2025, 03:04:21 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Online Tom Graves

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2025, 12:47:12 AM »
Someone who is truly and honestly neutral on what happened, is agnostic on what happened that day in Dallas and has no set opinion on whether it was Oswald alone or a cast of thousands, would, on the bag question, challenge any and every explanation as to what was in it. Viz., that it contained a rifle, that it contained curtain rods, that it contained a lunch, or that it contained something else. Each theory would be scrutinized, questioned. But we don't see that. We have the challenge made against the rifle theory but not the curtain rod or lunch or something else theory.

The intellectual inconsistency is obvious to everyone.

Dear Steve M.,

Do you think the bag (with Oswald's prints on it) was planted in the Sniper's Nest by the bad guys?

If not, what do you think it had contained, if anything?

-- Tom
« Last Edit: May 11, 2025, 01:19:25 AM by Tom Graves »

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2025, 12:47:12 AM »