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Author Topic: John M. Newman and Tennent H. Bagley  (Read 419 times)

Online Tom Graves

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John M. Newman and Tennent H. Bagley
« on: May 02, 2025, 10:53:47 PM »
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At another JFK assassination forum a few months ago, a dude who seems to hate everything CIA started a thread titled “Tennent H. Bagley, CIA Chief of Counterintelligence, Soviet Russian Division (C/SR/CI) — Why is he trusted by [former] NSA officer Maj. John M. Newman?”

Newman, of course, is the former high-level Army intelligence analyst and NSA officer who became a JFKA conspiracy theorist and wrote the 1995/2008 book, Oswald and the CIA, the 2008 version of which claimed that James Angleton, CIA’s legendary Chief of Counterintelligence, was the mastermind of the assassination.

In 2022, Newman published Uncovering Popov’s Mole (which he dedicated to Bagley), in which he says Angleton was duped by a KGB mole in the CIA — his confidant, mentor, and mole-hunting superior in the Office of Security, Bruce Leonard Solie — and that JFK was not killed by the CIA, but by some high-level military officers because he refused to nuke Moscow and Peking in 1963.

It’s interesting that Newman used to be the darling of the CIA-hating JFKA “research community,” but has now become something of a pariah.

I used to be a JFKA conspiracy theorist, myself, but I now believe that a former sharpshooting Marine radar operator by the name of Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK and did so with or without encouragement and/or logistical support from Khruschev’s KGB or Castro’s DGI.

I’m glad that Newman’s British colleague, researcher Malcolm Blunt, befriended Bagley (R.I.P.) at a 2008 Raliegh, North Carolina, “spy conference,” and later showed him some FOIA CIA documents that he hadn’t been privy to in 1959-60 (he wasn't in the right department at the time to see them) and in1978 (he had retired from the Agency in 1974). These documents convinced Bagley that Oswald must have been a “witting” defector to the USSR in 1959, i.e., that he was knowingly on some sort of mission for the CIA, and that Solie “should be put on the list” of mole suspects.

Blunt turned Newman onto Bagley, and Newman proceeded to read his 2007 book, Spy Wars: Moles, Mysteries, and Deadly Games, his 2013 book,Spy Master, and his 2014 35-page article, “Ghosts of the Spy Wars,” and came to believe that Bagley was right to pronounce Yuri Nosenko a false-defector-in-place in Geneva in June 1962 and false physical defector to the U.S. in February 1964 (I prefer to believe he was a rogue defector in ‘64 whose bona fides the KGB had no choice but to support), and seems to have understood that KGB Major Anatoliy Golitsyn, who defected to the U.S. in December 1961, was right about the Kremlin’s 1959-on “Master Plan” according to which the KGB, having created a top-secret "KGB within the KGB," was waging Sun Tzu-like disinformation, “active measures,” and “Inside Man” / “Outside Man” strategic deception counterintelligence operations against us and our NATO allies so that we would tear ourselves apart.

Newman now believes Solie sent (or duped his confidant, protégé, and mole-hunting superior, Angleton, into sending) Oswald to Moscow in 1959 as an ostensible “dangle” in a (unbeknownst to Angleton and Oswald) planned-to-fail hunt for “Popov’s U-2 Mole” / “Popov’s Mole” (Solie) in the wrong part of the CIA — the Soviet Russia Division — which mole-hunt protected Solie from being uncovered, tore the SRD apart, and drove Angleton nuts.

I tend to agree with him.

PS Bagley, along with James Angleton, Newton "Scotty" Miler, Raymond Rocca, and FBI's William Sullivan, was one of Edward J. Epstein's main sources for his 1978 book, Legend: The Secret World of Lee Harvey Oswald.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2025, 12:36:50 AM by Tom Graves »

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John M. Newman and Tennent H. Bagley
« on: May 02, 2025, 10:53:47 PM »


Online Lance Payette

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Re: John M. Newman and Tennent H. Bagley
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2025, 01:14:39 AM »
For the benefit of those inclined to think of Newman solely as a serious, conspiracy-oriented JFKA researcher, I occasionally like to point out that he is also the author of this scholarly tome. It was published in 2011 and thus cannot be dismissed as the product of his youth. He describes himself in the introduction as a "yoga teacher." (The only footnote in the introduction is to the work of Paramahansa Yogananda - my avatar here!)

Suffice it to say, in my truly vast Christian-oriented reading I have never even seen the book mentioned. And I read a lot of weird stuff!

A one-star Amazon review (not by me!) is headlined "Christian Conspiracy Theories."

This is not intended to cast aspersions on Newman's JFKA work (which I do thoroughly reject). This book is excellent for what it is. It does, however, provide a bit of perspective on Newman as someone perhaps a bit more "out there" than you might have imagined.

Quest For The Kingdom: The Secret Teachings of Jesus in the Light of Yogic Mysticism


Online Tom Graves

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Re: John M. Newman and Tennent H. Bagley
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2025, 02:45:15 AM »
For the benefit of those inclined to think of Newman solely as a serious, conspiracy-oriented JFKA researcher, I occasionally like to point out that he is also the author of this scholarly tome. It was published in 2011 and thus cannot be dismissed as the product of his youth. He describes himself in the introduction as a "yoga teacher." (The only footnote in the introduction is to the work of Paramahansa Yogananda - my avatar here!)

Suffice it to say, in my truly vast Christian-oriented reading I have never even seen the book mentioned. And I read a lot of weird stuff!

A one-star Amazon review (not by me!) is headlined "Christian Conspiracy Theories."

This is not intended to cast aspersions on Newman's JFKA work (which I do thoroughly reject). This book is excellent for what it is. It does, however, provide a bit of perspective on Newman as someone perhaps a bit more "out there" than you might have imagined.

Dear Lance,

Have you read Bagley's 2007 Yale University Press book, Spy Wars, his 2014 follow-up article, "[Holy] Ghosts of the Spy Wars," and his 2013 book, Spy Master (with former KGB General Sergei Kondrashev)?

Did you know that "Pete" (a "Lone Nutter") was on the fast track to become Director of CIA until "Oswald's Ruskie Case Officer," Yuri Nosenko, physically "defected" to the U.S. two months after the JFKA assassination (!!!) and claimed to know for a fact that the KGB had absolutely nothing to do with former sharpshooting Marine radar-operator Lee Harvey Oswald during the two-and-a-half-years he lived half-a-mile (or was it two blocks?) from a KGB school in Minsk? (How fortunate for J. Edgar "Egg-On-Face" Hoover!!!)

John Newman may be a wacko "Hoot" religion-wise and JFKA-wise, but he was a military intelligence officer for twenty years and he was Executive Assistant to the Director of NSA and he knows how to analyze a CIA doc.

Are you trying to assassinate (pardon the pun) Bagley's character and intelligence by association, even though he never knew "Hoot" Newman?

Just curious: Are you as pro-Trump as your Belyoussian(?) wife?

-- Tom
« Last Edit: May 03, 2025, 03:05:43 AM by Tom Graves »

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Re: John M. Newman and Tennent H. Bagley
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2025, 02:45:15 AM »


Online Lance Payette

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Re: John M. Newman and Tennent H. Bagley
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2025, 05:40:22 PM »
This is the second time you have made reference to my wife, whom you don't know from can of corn and who has done nothing but attempt to be helpful to you in your lunatic quest for Oswald's KGB connections.

Your posts all sound as though they are coming from some weird echo chamber where Joe McCarthy is alive and well and the same paranoid loop plays over and over and over. They strike me as more appropriate for a forum called "Spy vs. Spy" or perhaps "The Russkies are Everywhere!" I have no idea what they are supposed to have to do with the JFKA. Tennent Bagley, who I am sure was a fascinating guy, simply doesn't interest me in the slightest.

Newman's book on Jesus is, as I stated, a curious work of genuine scholarship. I believe it does provide perspective on how his mind works. 2000 years of Christian scholarship are flat-out wrong, Jesus was not who the Orthodox-Catholic-Protestant Christian communities have always believed him to be, and Newman has discovered the esoteric key to who he really was. Well, ya know ...

One of my personal heroes used to be the late David Ray Griffin. He taught at Claremont, which is as good as it gets, and was the leading modern exponent of Alfred North Whitehead's "process theology." Griffin's theological scholarship was vast. He intrigued me because he was also open to, and wrote about, some of the same anomalous phenomena that interest me. This was all I knew about him, and all there was to know, for a decade.

Then, virtually overnight, he became a fanatical 9/11 Truther and one of the leading authors/spokesmen of the movement. He pretty much destroyed his reputation. Did this metamorphosis color the way I looked at his previous work in theology and the anomalous? Damn right it did. I still respect the work on its own merits, but I now realize I am reading the work of a mind prone to the conspiracy mindset. Ditto with Newman. That's all - just ditto with Newman.

Online Tom Graves

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Re: John M. Newman and Tennent H. Bagley
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2025, 08:14:52 PM »
This is the second time you have made reference to my wife, whom you don't know from can of corn and who has done nothing but attempt to be helpful to you in your lunatic quest for Oswald's KGB connections.

Your posts all sound as though they are coming from some weird echo chamber where Joe McCarthy is alive and well and the same paranoid loop plays over and over and over. They strike me as more appropriate for a forum called "Spy vs. Spy" or perhaps "The Russkies are Everywhere!" I have no idea what they are supposed to have to do with the JFKA. Tennent Bagley, who I am sure was a fascinating guy, simply doesn't interest me in the slightest.

Newman's book on Jesus is, as I stated, a curious work of genuine scholarship. I believe it does provide perspective on how his mind works. 2000 years of Christian scholarship are flat-out wrong, Jesus was not who the Orthodox-Catholic-Protestant Christian communities have always believed him to be, and Newman has discovered the esoteric key to who he really was. Well, ya know ...

One of my personal heroes used to be the late David Ray Griffin. He taught at Claremont, which is as good as it gets, and was the leading modern exponent of Alfred North Whitehead's "process theology." Griffin's theological scholarship was vast. He intrigued me because he was also open to, and wrote about, some of the same anomalous phenomena that interest me. This was all I knew about him, and all there was to know, for a decade.

Then, virtually overnight, he became a fanatical 9/11 Truther and one of the leading authors/spokesmen of the movement. He pretty much destroyed his reputation. Did this metamorphosis color the way I looked at his previous work in theology and the anomalous? Damn right it did. I still respect the work on its own merits, but I now realize I am reading the work of a mind prone to the conspiracy mindset. Ditto with Newman. That's all - just ditto with Newman.

Dear Lance,

Tak.

It wasn't I who first brought up your wife.

If I remember correctly, it was you who volunteered that she used to work in the same Minsk factory that Oswald worked at (or some-such thing), that she used to be "almost embarrassingly pro-Trump," and it was you who intimated that the only thing she doesn't care about him now is his stance on the war in Ukraine.

You said that you voted for Obama twice yadda yadda yadda, and that most recently your "Trumpean" ballots were not counted because they were damaged or filled out improperly or some-such thing.

So, you're a Trump supporter.

I don't hate Trump supporters, Lance, but I certainly despise them for being the gullible, naive, "useful idiots" that they are.

Regardless, have you read PhD Dr. Tennent H. Bagley's 2007 Yale University Press book, Spy Wars: Moles, Mysteries, and Deadly Games, yet, or even his 35-page follow up article, "Ghosts of the Spy Wars"? Or do your "eyes glaze over" at the thought?

If so, 'tis a pity, because if you were to read them, you'd realize what great lengths the KGB*, with a "mole" or three already in place, went to from 1959-on to get us to the point at which we now find ourselves.

*Today's SVR and FSB

-- Tom

PS You can still read them for free by googling "spy wars" and "archive" simultaneously and "ghosts of the spy wars" and "archive" simultaneously.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2025, 09:38:04 PM by Tom Graves »

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Re: John M. Newman and Tennent H. Bagley
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2025, 08:14:52 PM »


Online Lance Payette

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Re: John M. Newman and Tennent H. Bagley
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2025, 08:28:37 PM »
Thanks to Duncan or someone for removing the over-the-top insults in my post. I logged on to delete them myself and they were already gone.  Thumb1:

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: John M. Newman and Tennent H. Bagley
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2025, 11:47:21 PM »
For the benefit of those inclined to think of Newman solely as a serious, conspiracy-oriented JFKA researcher, I occasionally like to point out that he is also the author of this scholarly tome.

Hilarious.  The purveyor of one faith-based narrative casts aspersions on a different faith-based narrative.  So much for scholarship.

Online Tom Graves

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Re: John M. Newman and Tennent H. Bagley
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2025, 01:17:08 AM »
Dear Lance,

Tak.

It wasn't I who first brought up your wife.

If I remember correctly, it was you who volunteered that she used to work in the same Minsk factory that Oswald worked at (or some-such thing), that she used to be "almost embarrassingly pro-Trump," and it was you who intimated that the only thing she doesn't care about him now is his stance on the war in Ukraine.

You said that you voted for Obama twice yadda yadda yadda, and that most recently your "Trumpean" ballots were not counted because they were damaged or filled out improperly or some-such thing.

So, you're a Trump supporter.

I don't hate Trump supporters, Lance, but I certainly despise them for being the gullible, naive, "useful idiots" that they are.

Regardless, have you read PhD Dr. Tennent H. Bagley's 2007 Yale University Press book, Spy Wars: Moles, Mysteries, and Deadly Games, yet, or even his 35-page follow up article, "Ghosts of the Spy Wars"? Or do your "eyes glaze over" at the thought?

If so, 'tis a pity, because if you were to read them, you'd realize what great lengths the KGB*, with a "mole" or three already in place, went to from 1959-on to get us to the point at which we now find ourselves.

*Today's SVR and FSB

-- Tom

PS You can still read them for free by googling "spy wars" and "archive" simultaneously and "ghosts of the spy wars" and "archive" simultaneously.

I'm bumping this for Lance "Hoot" Payette.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: John M. Newman and Tennent H. Bagley
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2025, 01:17:08 AM »