How exactly did the shooter get down from the sixth floor?

[Richard Smith]

"Martin" from "Europe" still can't follow simple logic.  If the evidence places Oswald on the 6th floor at 12:30 when the shots were fired AS IT DOES and THEN on the 2nd floor a couple of minutes later AS IT DOES and the ONLY WAY for Oswald to have gotten from those two points is DOWN THE STAIRS that proves beyond any doubt whatsoever that Oswald went DOWN THE STAIRS.   The best evidence that a thing could happen is that we can prove it DID happen.  Martin is struggling with reality.   The odds of an event occurring - no matter how long - becomes moot if it can be shown that it did in fact occur.  Even if we accepted Martin's laughable false premise that it is unlikely that Oswald could have gotten down the stairs unnoticed because Martin somehow knows everyone's movements down to fractions of seconds based on their generalized description of events after it makes no difference to the conclusion.  It's like telling someone holding the winning lottery ticket in their hands that the odds against them winning are so great that they couldn't have done it.  And sticking to that even as they cash it in.

Martin wants to frame any discussion in the bizarre contrarian manner in which others have to account for every conceivable objection that he can dream up in his mind and eliminate to his subjective satisfaction any alternative as though a time machine existed.   LOL.  Any fact that Martin doesn't want to accept is subject to this same impossible standard of proof which is unreasonable to begin with while every alternative is entertained no matter how absurd with no proof whatsoever.  Repeat endlessly.  Dragging every thread down the same pointless rabbit hole.

[Martin Weidmann]

"Martin" from "Europe" still can't follow simple logic.  If the evidence places Oswald on the 6th floor at 12:30 when the shots were fired AS IT DOES and THEN on the 2nd floor a couple of minutes later AS IT DOES and the ONLY WAY for Oswald to have gotten from those two points is DOWN THE STAIRS that proves beyond any doubt whatsoever that Oswald went DOWN THE STAIRS.   The best evidence that a thing could happen is that we can prove it DID happen.  Martin is struggling with reality.   The odds of an event occurring - no matter how long - becomes moot if it can be shown that it did in fact occur.  Even if we accepted Martin's laughable false premise that it is unlikely that Oswald could have gotten down the stairs unnoticed because Martin somehow knows everyone's movements down to fractions of seconds based on their generalized description of events after it makes no difference to the conclusion.  It's like telling someone holding the winning lottery ticket in their hands that the odds against them winning are so great that they couldn't have done it.  And sticking to that even as they cash it in.

Martin wants to frame any discussion in the bizarre contrarian manner in which others have to account for every conceivable objection that he can dream up in his mind and eliminate to his subjective satisfaction any alternative as though a time machine existed.   LOL.  Any fact that Martin doesn't want to accept is subject to this same impossible standard of proof which is unreasonable to begin with while every alternative is entertained no matter how absurd with no proof whatsoever.  Repeat endlessly.  Dragging every thread down the same pointless rabbit hole.

If the evidence places Oswald on the 6th floor at 12:30 when the shots were fired AS IT DOES

Show me the actual evidence (not your assumptions) that Oswald was on the 6th floor at 12:30 and I will agree with you and shut up! Go on then...

and THEN on the 2nd floor a couple of minutes later AS IT DOES

Sure, it does... Baker and Truly saw him there, within 90 seconds after the shots

and the ONLY WAY for Oswald to have gotten from those two points is DOWN THE STAIRS that proves beyond any doubt whatsoever that Oswald went DOWN THE STAIRS. 

Only if and when you can prove that he was on the 6th floor to begin with? Can you?

The best evidence that a thing could happen is that we can prove it DID happen.

Well, prove it did happen!

The odds of an event occurring - no matter how long - becomes moot if it can be shown that it did in fact occur.

Agreed! No show it did in fact occur!

Even if we accepted Martin's laughable false premise that it is unlikely that Oswald could have gotten down the stairs unnoticed because Martin somehow knows everyone's movements down to fractions of seconds based on their generalized description of events after it makes no difference to the conclusion

That's not my premise! It's your strawman! A time trail has proven that he could have gotten down the stairs in the known time frame. It just hasn't proven that he could have gotten down the stairs unnoticed.

Martin wants to frame any discussion in the bizarre contrarian manner in which others have to account for every conceivable objection that he can dream up in his mind and eliminate to his subjective satisfaction any alternative as though a time machine existed.   LOL.

Nope, that's just plain silly. Show me the evidence that conclusively places Oswald on the 6th floor at 12:30 and I have nothing left to object to. So, it's up to you... show me the evidence!

Any fact that Martin doesn't want to accept is subject to this same impossible standard of proof which is unreasonable to begin

Is it unreasonable to just ask for conclusive evidence?

[John Mytton]

"Martin" from "Europe" still can't follow simple logic.  If the evidence places Oswald on the 6th floor at 12:30 when the shots were fired AS IT DOES and THEN on the 2nd floor a couple of minutes later AS IT DOES and the ONLY WAY for Oswald to have gotten from those two points is DOWN THE STAIRS that proves beyond any doubt whatsoever that Oswald went DOWN THE STAIRS.   The best evidence that a thing could happen is that we can prove it DID happen.  Martin is struggling with reality.   The odds of an event occurring - no matter how long - becomes moot if it can be shown that it did in fact occur.  Even if we accepted Martin's laughable false premise that it is unlikely that Oswald could have gotten down the stairs unnoticed because Martin somehow knows everyone's movements down to fractions of seconds based on their generalized description of events after it makes no difference to the conclusion.  It's like telling someone holding the winning lottery ticket in their hands that the odds against them winning are so great that they couldn't have done it.  And sticking to that even as they cash it in.

Martin wants to frame any discussion in the bizarre contrarian manner in which others have to account for every conceivable objection that he can dream up in his mind and eliminate to his subjective satisfaction any alternative as though a time machine existed.   LOL.  Any fact that Martin doesn't want to accept is subject to this same impossible standard of proof which is unreasonable to begin with while every alternative is entertained no matter how absurd with no proof whatsoever.  Repeat endlessly.  Dragging every thread down the same pointless rabbit hole.

It's pretty funny that 60+ years later that the CT's still haven't come up with a viable alternative to the rock solid evidence of the official version.

Oswald was a loon who ffs defected to Russia at the height of the cold war and when he wasn't accepted by Russia, Oswald slit his wrists, who the heck, besides someone who's verifiably insane, does that?
Oswald also attempted to assassinate General Walker, further proving he was a murderous nutcase!

But getting back to this problem;

Oswald's rifle with his prints was discovered on the same floor as eyewitnesses saw a man with a rifle.

What happened to the slender man seen on the 6th floor with a rifle, how did HE escape? -crickets-

Oswald's relatively fresh prints were discovered in the sniper's nest and most importantly Oswald's prints which were oriented down Elm street were left on the perfectly sized rifle rest box which was moved half way across the 6th floor.





Adams story is full of holes, she said she saw Lovelady and Shelley on the first floor, impossible if she left "immediately".

Styles later recalled that she was pretty sure that they went to the lift first and looking at the plan of the 4th floor, that makes perfect sense, because why go all the way to the rear of the building when the far closer elevator will take you down to the front of the building. And besides walking down multiple floors of stairs while wearing 3 inch heels wouldn't IMO be the first choice.


Oswald's alibi where he says he had lunch with Junior never happened.

Mr. BALL. And you asked him again, didn't you, what he was doing at the time the President was shot?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did he say?
Mr. FRITZ. Well, he told me about the same story about this lunch.
Mr. BALL. He mentioned who he was having lunch with, did he not?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; he told me he was having lunch when the President was shot.
Mr. BALL. With whom?
Mr. FRITZ. With someone called Junior, someone he worked with down there, but he didn't remember the other boy's name.



Oswald being on the move walking in a direction away from the stairs 90 seconds after the assassination while there is commotion and bedlam happening just outside, and just to get a coke is simply illogical! But Oswald coming down from the 6th floor and quickly hiding in the lunchroom after hearing Truly shout up the elevator shaft is perfectly logical.

After hours of interrogation, Oswald slipped up.

Mr. HOLMES. ... Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs." And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about,

How can you go downstairs when the commotion began when you are already on the first floor? When you don't start from the truth, liars always become unstuck.

Mr. FRITZ. .....  I asked him what part of the building at the time the President was shot. He said he was having lunch at about this time on the first floor.

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

It's pretty funny that 60+ years later that the CT's still haven't come up with a viable alternative to the rock solid evidence of the official version.

Oswald was a loon who ffs defected to Russia at the height of the cold war and when he wasn't accepted by Russia, Oswald slit his wrists, who the heck, besides someone who's verifiably insane, does that?
Oswald also attempted to assassinate General Walker, further proving he was a murderous nutcase!

But getting back to this problem;

Oswald's rifle with his prints was discovered on the same floor as eyewitnesses saw a man with a rifle.

What happened to the slender man seen on the 6th floor with a rifle, how did HE escape? -crickets-

Oswald's relatively fresh prints were discovered in the sniper's nest and most importantly Oswald's prints which were oriented down Elm street were left on the perfectly sized rifle rest box which was moved half way across the 6th floor.





Adams story is full of holes, she said she saw Lovelady and Shelley on the first floor, impossible if she left "immediately".

Styles later recalled that she was pretty sure that they went to the lift first and looking at the plan of the 4th floor, that makes perfect sense, because why go all the way to the rear of the building when the far closer elevator will take you down to the front of the building. And besides walking down multiple floors of stairs while wearing 3 inch heels wouldn't IMO be the first choice.


Oswald's alibi where he says he had lunch with Junior never happened.

Mr. BALL. And you asked him again, didn't you, what he was doing at the time the President was shot?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did he say?
Mr. FRITZ. Well, he told me about the same story about this lunch.
Mr. BALL. He mentioned who he was having lunch with, did he not?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; he told me he was having lunch when the President was shot.
Mr. BALL. With whom?
Mr. FRITZ. With someone called Junior, someone he worked with down there, but he didn't remember the other boy's name.



Oswald being on the move walking in a direction away from the stairs 90 seconds after the assassination while there is commotion and bedlam happening just outside, and just to get a coke is simply illogical! But Oswald coming down from the 6th floor and quickly hiding in the lunchroom after hearing Truly shout up the elevator shaft is perfectly logical.

After hours of interrogation, Oswald slipped up.

Mr. HOLMES. ... Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs." And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about,

How can you go downstairs when the commotion began when you are already on the first floor? When you don't start from the truth, liars always become unstuck.

Mr. FRITZ. .....  I asked him what part of the building at the time the President was shot. He said he was having lunch at about this time on the first floor.

JohnM

Classic LN stuff. Cherry picking evidence and ignoring the rest. Comments designed to make you assume Oswald was on the 6th floor at 12:30 and, of course, not a shred of hard conclusive evidence that he actually was.

[Royell Storing]

  NONE of that mountain of stuff above puts Oswald firing shots out of the 6th Floor Sniper's Nest. NONE of it. I believe he was involved, but firing shots out of the window and then leaving his traceable rifle behind? Nope! And, I believe the Adams stated timeline is not correct based on the Lovelady and Shelly WC Q/A. I also believe the Officer Baker & Roy Truly timeline has been "fudged" pretty good too. Everybody keeps timing how long it would take a shooter to go from the 6th Floor to the 2nd Floor Lunchroom. I think it took Baker/Truly longer to even begin using the stairwell to get Up to the 2nd Floor. This gave a shooter much more time to go from the 6th Floor and all the way Down the stairwell to the basement level and then EXIT either via the Huge Gates, (YES they were OPEN), and onto the Elm St Ext, or simply walk straight through to the loading dock that led straight into the railroad yard. If you know the layout of the TSBD and the ATTACHED buildings, You know how easily this can be done. And there was easily enough time to do this. Clean as a whistle.   

[Richard Smith]

There are certain facts that most can agree on:

1) Shots were fired at 12:30 from the 6th floor.  That means that someone was on that floor at that moment.
2) Oswald's rifle was left on that floor and was used to fire the shots (some of the more fringe CTers might take issue with this but it appears conclusive even to many CTers).  You don't even have to accept that, however, in this context.
3) The 6th floor shooter escaped that floor unnoticed regardless of any pedantic fraction of a second attempted reconstruction of witness movements in the building.
4) The only apparent way for anyone on the 6th floor to get off that floor after the shots were fired is - wait for it - DOWN THE STAIRS.  The elevators were not in a position to be used.
5) No one was noticed going down the stairs.
6) Oswald was seen on the 2nd floor a couple of minutes later.

All of this tells us that whoever fired the shots at 12:30 - whether Oswald or someone else - managed to escape unnoticed by going down the stairs.  We know this is possible without engaging in a pedantic down to the second analysis of witness statements because the facts demonstrate it must have happened.  The only quibble is whether the evidence puts Oswald on the 6th floor as the shooter.  Not whether anyone could get down those stairs unnoticed.  Someone did.

[Martin Weidmann]

There are certain facts that most can agree on:

1) Shots were fired at 12:30 from the 6th floor.  That means that someone was on that floor at that moment.
2) Oswald's rifle was left on that floor and was used to fire the shots (some of the more fringe CTers might take issue with this but it appears conclusive even to many CTers).  You don't even have to accept that, however, in this context.
3) The 6th floor shooter escaped that floor unnoticed regardless of any pedantic fraction of a second attempted reconstruction of witness movements in the building.
4) The only apparent way for anyone on the 6th floor to get off that floor after the shots were fired is - wait for it - DOWN THE STAIRS.  The elevators were not in a position to be used.
5) No one was noticed going down the stairs.
6) Oswald was seen on the 2nd floor a couple of minutes later.

All of this tells us that whoever fired the shots at 12:30 - whether Oswald or someone else - managed to escape unnoticed by going down the stairs.  We know this is possible without engaging in a pedantic down to the second analysis of witness statements because the facts demonstrate it must have happened.  The only quibble is whether the evidence puts Oswald on the 6th floor as the shooter.  Not whether anyone could get down those stairs unnoticed.  Someone did.

1) Shots were fired at 12:30 from the 6th floor.  That means that someone was on that floor at that moment.

Really? Are you sure that everybody agrees with that? Or even just "most"?

2) Oswald's rifle was left on that floor and was used to fire the shots (some of the more fringe CTers might take issue with this but it appears conclusive even to many CTers).  You don't even have to accept that, however, in this context.

There was a rifle left on the 6th floor, that much is true. And it may well be that it was used to fire shots. There is, however, nothing conclusive about your claim that the rifle belonged to Oswald or that it was fired on 11/22/63.

3) The 6th floor shooter escaped that floor unnoticed regardless of any pedantic fraction of a second attempted reconstruction of witness movements in the building.

Well, it is certainly true that a 6th floor shooter (if he was there) did escape from that floor, but how that was done has never been explained or examined. The claim that the shooter went down the stairs directly after the shots is, if you think about, something rather stupid. Why would such a shooter risk running into people coming up on those narrow stairs? Sometimes the best strategy is to hide in plain sight. The 6th floor is big enough to hide for a while behind some boxes and reappear, pretending to be law enforcement officer searching like the others, when a bunch of people have arrived on the 6th floor. It's easy to slip away in chaos. Just a theory, mind you, but then the same goes for the shooter running down the stairs just after the shots. Obviously, you are free to dismiss this possibility, but if you do, please tell us why you dismiss it?

4) The only apparent way for anyone on the 6th floor to get off that floor after the shots were fired is - wait for it - DOWN THE STAIRS.  The elevators were not in a position to be used.

True... the question that you need to answer is when did that person (shooter if you like) actually go down the stairs?

5) No one was noticed going down the stairs.

Exactly my point. People had other things to do to notice just one more guy going up or down the stairs.

6) Oswald was seen on the 2nd floor a couple of minutes later.

True, if Truly and Baker are to be believed, but he could have been there for some time. Carolyn Arnold said she saw him there minutes prior to the assassination. But I'm sure you feel she lied, right?

All of this tells us that whoever fired the shots at 12:30 - whether Oswald or someone else - managed to escape unnoticed by going down the stairs.  We know this is possible without engaging in a pedantic down to the second analysis of witness statements because the facts demonstrate it must have happened.  The only quibble is whether the evidence puts Oswald on the 6th floor as the shooter.  Not whether anyone could get down those stairs unnoticed.  Someone did.

So, you just want us to assume that "someone" was in fact Oswald? Just as I thought, no actual evidence, just assumptions!