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Author Topic: For Weeks Before Assassination Oswald's Every Move Monitored By FBI/CIA  (Read 8622 times)

Offline Dan O'meara

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"A few months after the assassination, I asked Gordon Shanklin why the bureau didn't at least tell the Dallas police about Oswald, and where he worked. I observed that the cops surely would have wanted to babysit such a character.

"We didn't want him to lose his job," Shanklin explained."


[ Hugh Aynesworth, JFK: Breaking the News (2003) ]

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Offline Watson Phillips

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"A few months after the assassination, I asked Gordon Shanklin why the bureau didn't at least tell the Dallas police about Oswald, and where he worked. I observed that the cops surely would have wanted to babysit such a character.

"We didn't want him to lose his job," Shanklin explained."


[ Hugh Aynesworth, JFK: Breaking the News (2003) ]

Sounds like the Bureau wanted everybody else on the outside looking in .

Online Charles Collins

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There are usually two sides to “stories” like these. It is prudent to consider both sides. Here is a small snippet from James Hosty’s book “Assignment Oswald” regarding the memo:

Two of my fellow agents, Bob Barrett and Ike Lee, later told me about their conversation with Revill after the story broke. Revill told Barrett and Lee that he had not wanted his November 22 memo to be released to the Warren Commission or the press, but police chief Jesse Curry threatened to charge Revill with filing a false police report if Revill wouldn’t swear to the truth in his memo. The police then got a memo from Detective Jackie Bryan, who had been standing near Revill and me during this brief garage conversation. Contrary to Aynes-worth’s assertion, Bryan supported my version of the events. He reported that he did not hear me make any kind of comment suggesting I knew Oswald was capable of killing the president.

The first four paragraphs of Revill’s five-paragraph memo were accurate. But the last paragraph, the incendiary paragraph, appears to have been added as an afterthought.

 The memo read:
 November 22, 1963
 Captain W.P. Gannaway Special Service Bureau
 Subject: Lee Harvey Oswald
 605 Elsbeth Street

 Sir:

 On November 22, 1963, at approximately 2:50 P.M., the undersigned officer met Special Agent James Hosty of the Federal Bureau of Investigation in the basement of the City Hall.

 At that time Special Agent Hosty related to this officer that the subject was a member of the Communist Party, and that he was residing in Dallas.

 The Subject was arrested for the murder of Officer J. D. Tippit and is a prime suspect in the assassination of President Kennedy.

 The information regarding the Subject’s affiliation with the Communist Party is the firss information this officer has received from the Federal Bureau of Investigation regarding same.

 Agent Hosty further stated that the Federal Bureau of Investigation was aware of the Subject and that they had information that this Subject was capable of committing the assassination of President Kennedy.

 Respectfully submitted,

 Jack Revill, Lieutenant Criminal Intelligence Section


Logically, that last paragraph should have been inserted into the second paragraph where Revill is quoting me. The fifth paragraph’s information is much more dramatic thtn everything else in the memo, so why didn’t Revill put it up higher? Could it be because he inserted it later?

 I wasn’t the only one to question the veracity of Revill’s memo. The Warren Commission ordered the FBI’s forensic document experts to analyze it to determine if the police had added the last paragraph after November 22. Unfortunately, the police had only supplied the Commission and the FBI forensic lab with a photocopy of the memo. Because they did not have the original memo on which to conduct a microscopic examination, the forensic lab could make no determinations.

 On April 27, 1964, William A. Murphy, a retired FBI agent who had been the Dallas SAC, wrote Shanklin a letter. Murphy, just like the rest of the country, had read the press accounts quoting Revill’s memo.

 Murphy told Shanklin that on December 20, 1963, he had confronted Chief Curry about remarks he had made shortly after midnight the night of the assassination at a press conference. The chief had announced that the FBI knew Oswald was in town but had not warned the Dallas police. During the December 20 meeting, Murphy asked Curry what his basis was for that comment to the press. Later, in early January 1964, Curry asked Murphy to come to his office so that he could explain his November 23 comments. Curry pulled from his desk drawer the original copy of the Revill memo and handed it to Murphy.

 Murphy took his time, and carefully read and reread the memo, which he described as “on Police Department memorandum stationery, from Lt. Revill to either Captain Gannaway or to Chief Curry.” Murphy read Revill’s comment that I had reported on November 22 that Oswald was a Communist and living in Dallas.

 Most critically, Murphy insisted to Shanklin, “This entire memorandum consisted of approximately three to four brief paragraphs, and positively there was no information set forth in that memorandum indicating that Hosty had in any way represented that Oswald had any dangerous tendencies or that he was in any way considered capable of assassinating the president.” Murphy was adamant on this point. He told Shanklin that if the memo had reported I knew Oswald was capable of killing the president, Shanklin could be assured that he would have immediately reported that to the FBI. Murphy also pointed out to Shanklin that Curry, during his press conference on November 23, made no mention about the FBI supposedly knowing that Oswald was capable of killing the president.

 Murphy strongly resented that the Dallas police were trying to discredit me and the FBI. Murphy didn’t say it, but he was directly implying that sometime after early January 1964, the police had added that explosive last paragraph to the Revill memo.


As I said earlier, there are typically two sides to these types of stories. Has anyone ever come across the memo from Detective Jackie Bryan? Or, perhaps the Murphy letter to Shanklin?
« Last Edit: April 14, 2025, 12:44:57 AM by Charles Collins »

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Offline Michael Capasse

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Mr. HOSTY. "No, sir. I want to state for the record at this time that I unequivocally deny ever having made the
statement to Lieutenant Revill or to anyone else that, "We knew Lee Harvey Oswald was capable of assassinating the
President of the United States, we didn't dream he would do it
."

 Thumb1: yet, there it is in real time:
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338946/m1/1/
« Last Edit: April 14, 2025, 01:09:49 AM by Michael Capasse »

Offline Watson Phillips

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There are usually two sides to “stories” like these. It is prudent to consider both sides. Here is a small snippet from James Hosty’s book “Assignment Oswald” regarding the memo:

Two of my fellow agents, Bob Barrett and Ike Lee, later told me about their conversation with Revill after the story broke. Revill told Barrett and Lee that he had not wanted his November 22 memo to be released to the Warren Commission or the press, but police chief Jesse Curry threatened to charge Revill with filing a false police report if Revill wouldn’t swear to the truth in his memo. The police then got a memo from Detective Jackie Bryan, who had been standing near Revill and me during this brief garage conversation. Contrary to Aynes-worth’s assertion, Bryan supported my version of the events. He reported that he did not hear me make any kind of comment suggesting I knew Oswald was capable of killing the president.

The first four paragraphs of Revill’s five-paragraph memo were accurate. But the last paragraph, the incendiary paragraph, appears to have been added as an afterthought.




How could any FBI agent with two brain cells to rub together  investigating Oswald as a Russian Asset , not be aware of his criminal record showing propensity for Violence towards authority figures and illegal firearms given his record convictions for both?

"April 11, 1958 Court-Martial: Partly Printed Document. Two two-sided pages, 8" x 12.5", Atsugi Japan, April 11, 1958. Being the "Charge Sheet" which contains Oswald's typed information as the accused, as well as names of witnesses, information provided by commanding officers, Oswald's punishment, and other remarks. On October 27, 1957, Oswald accidentally shot himself in the left elbow with his personal .22 derringer. Possession of such a firearm was in direct violation of "a lawful general order... by having in his possession a privately-owned weapon that was not registered." Following a three-week stay at the Yokosuka Naval Hospital and various unrelated delays, Oswald's court-martial commenced on April 11, 1958, at which time Commanding Officer and Convening Authority Lt. Col. N.D. Glenn made his judgment. Oswald was demoted from private first class to private and ordered "To be confined at hard labor for 20 days, to forfeit $25.00 per month for two months and to be reduced to the grade of private... Approved and ordered executed, but the confinement at hard labor for twenty days is suspended for six months, at which time, unless the suspension is sooner vacated, the sentence to confinement at hard labor for twenty days will be remitted without further action."


June 24, 1958 Court-Martial: Partly Printed Document Signed. Two two-sided pages, 8" x 12.5", Atsugi Japan, June 24, 1958. This "Charge Sheet" contains Oswald's typed information as the accused, the names of witnesses, information provided by commanding officers, Oswald's punishment, and other remarks. Just two months after his first court-martial, Oswald was brought before a second military court on charges that he insulted and assaulted a superior officer."

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Offline Watson Phillips

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Mr. HOSTY. "No, sir. I want to state for the record at this time that I unequivocally deny ever having made the
statement to Lieutenant Revill or to anyone else that, "We knew Lee Harvey Oswald was capable of assassinating the
President of the United States, we didn't dream he would do it
."

 Thumb1: yet, there it is in real time:
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338946/m1/1/

How could any FBI agent with two brain cells to rub together  investigating Oswald as a Russian Asset , not be aware of his criminal record showing propensity for Violence towards authority figures and illegal firearms given his record convictions for both?

"April 11, 1958 Court-Martial: Partly Printed Document. Two two-sided pages, 8" x 12.5", Atsugi Japan, April 11, 1958. Being the "Charge Sheet" which contains Oswald's typed information as the accused, as well as names of witnesses, information provided by commanding officers, Oswald's punishment, and other remarks. On October 27, 1957, Oswald accidentally shot himself in the left elbow with his personal .22 derringer. Possession of such a firearm was in direct violation of "a lawful general order... by having in his possession a privately-owned weapon that was not registered." Following a three-week stay at the Yokosuka Naval Hospital and various unrelated delays, Oswald's court-martial commenced on April 11, 1958, at which time Commanding Officer and Convening Authority Lt. Col. N.D. Glenn made his judgment. Oswald was demoted from private first class to private and ordered "To be confined at hard labor for 20 days, to forfeit $25.00 per month for two months and to be reduced to the grade of private... Approved and ordered executed, but the confinement at hard labor for twenty days is suspended for six months, at which time, unless the suspension is sooner vacated, the sentence to confinement at hard labor for twenty days will be remitted without further action."


June 24, 1958 Court-Martial: Partly Printed Document Signed. Two two-sided pages, 8" x 12.5", Atsugi Japan, June 24, 1958. This "Charge Sheet" contains Oswald's typed information as the accused, the names of witnesses, information provided by commanding officers, Oswald's punishment, and other remarks. Just two months after his first court-martial, Oswald was brought before a second military court on charges that he insulted and assaulted a superior officer."
« Last Edit: April 14, 2025, 02:06:32 AM by Watson Phillips »

Offline Lance Payette

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Mr. HOSTY. "No, sir. I want to state for the record at this time that I unequivocally deny ever having made the
statement to Lieutenant Revill or to anyone else that, "We knew Lee Harvey Oswald was capable of assassinating the
President of the United States, we didn't dream he would do it
."

 Thumb1: yet, there it is in real time:
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338946/m1/1/

I recall from my reading of Walt Brown's voluminous JFKA works (his Chronology is over a million words) that there was some backstory to the Revill-Hosty or Revill-FBI relationship. Unfortunately, I can't recall what it was. Given the paranoia that permeated the FBI thanks to Hoover, I guess we have to ask how likely it is that an FBI field agent like Hosty would have made a bombshell statement like that to an officer of another agency? We would also have to ask what possible factual basis there would have been for such a statement - i.e., what would have caused Hosty or anyone else to "know" that Oswald "was capable of assassinating the President of the United States"? One guess would be that the statement was an invention by Revill and attributable to some sort of bad blood between him and Hosty or him and the FBI. Or perhaps Revill simply misunderstood what Hosty had said. I find the statement itself, and the notion of Hosty making it to Revill as an offhand revelation, highly unlikely.

Offline Lance Payette

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How could any FBI agent with two brain cells to rub together  investigating Oswald as a Russian Asset , not be aware of his criminal record showing propensity for Violence towards authority figures and illegal firearms given his record convictions for both?

"April 11, 1958 Court-Martial: Partly Printed Document. Two two-sided pages, 8" x 12.5", Atsugi Japan, April 11, 1958. Being the "Charge Sheet" which contains Oswald's typed information as the accused, as well as names of witnesses, information provided by commanding officers, Oswald's punishment, and other remarks. On October 27, 1957, Oswald accidentally shot himself in the left elbow with his personal .22 derringer. Possession of such a firearm was in direct violation of "a lawful general order... by having in his possession a privately-owned weapon that was not registered." Following a three-week stay at the Yokosuka Naval Hospital and various unrelated delays, Oswald's court-martial commenced on April 11, 1958, at which time Commanding Officer and Convening Authority Lt. Col. N.D. Glenn made his judgment. Oswald was demoted from private first class to private and ordered "To be confined at hard labor for 20 days, to forfeit $25.00 per month for two months and to be reduced to the grade of private... Approved and ordered executed, but the confinement at hard labor for twenty days is suspended for six months, at which time, unless the suspension is sooner vacated, the sentence to confinement at hard labor for twenty days will be remitted without further action."


June 24, 1958 Court-Martial: Partly Printed Document Signed. Two two-sided pages, 8" x 12.5", Atsugi Japan, June 24, 1958. This "Charge Sheet" contains Oswald's typed information as the accused, the names of witnesses, information provided by commanding officers, Oswald's punishment, and other remarks. Just two months after his first court-martial, Oswald was brought before a second military court on charges that he insulted and assaulted a superior officer."


On this thread as well, I must put your "violent criminal" portrayal of Oswald in perspective:

1. An 18-year-old kid manages to shoot himself in the elbow at his locker in the barracks with a .22 Derringer that he possesses in contravention of military regulations. The discharge occurs while he is reaching into his locker for shaving cream. He is charged with "wrongful conduct" but not charged with the more serious "misconduct' because it's a minor incident.

2. The same kid, while drunk, accidentally (that was the court finding) spills a drink on a Technical Sergeant, who then shoves him, and the two end up in a minor altercation outside. He is convicted of only one of the charges against him - "using provocative words."

3. For 3+ years in the USSR and U.S., the individual's only brush with the law is for disturbing the peace in violation of a New Orleans municipal ordinance, for which he is fined $10.

4. He was not "under investigation for being a Russian asset." As a former defector with a Russian wife who openly engaged in pro-Castro activities, he was of routine interest to the FBI with no indication he was dangerous or a Russian asset.

5. At the time of the JFKA, he was working as a temporary order filler in a grungy warehouse with some 95 other people, most of whom were employees of well-known publishing companies. He did not have a "workplace on the 6th floor" - it was simply one of the floors from which he filled book orders. There was no "sniper's test" until the day of the JFKA. Every window in every building along the motorcade route was a potential sniper's nest (not to mention all the other locations from which CTers think shots were fired!).

You are simply engaging in the sort of long-after-the-fact, ad hoc "analysis" that is the lifeblood of conspiracy thinking. The day before the assassination, Oswald was simply a young oddball the SS probably should have been told about. After the JFKA, he was an obvious threat, a ticking time bomb, a violent criminal who should have been in shackles a week before the assassination. The reality is, if the SS had been told about him, they like the FBI might well have concluded he was not a threat.

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