The Warren Commission Sham

[Lance Payette]

CE 399 is the physical item of evidence. Testimonial and documentary evidence would establish the chain of custody of CE 399. Together, as stated in the chain of custody thread that you are too intellectually lazy to read, they would establish "abundantly" that CE 399 was found at Parkland. There is no "evidence" or "chain of custody" in a technical legal sense outside of a courtroom, but out here in the real world CE 399 and the chain of custody we have from the documents is certainly sufficient to establish a solid case that CE 399 was found at Parkland. There is zero evidence to rebut this, and there is no conspiratorial scenario that even makes sense.

You had to ask AI if a chain of custody is evidence??? That's like asking if a recipe is a pie. No, the testimony and documents establishing the chain of custody are the evidence. Your efforts at one-upmanship have a rather consistently amusing way of backfiring and making you seem a bit dense.

[Dan O'meara]

CE 399 is the physical item of evidence. Testimonial and documentary evidence would establish the chain of custody of CE 399. Together, as stated in the chain of custody thread that you are too intellectually lazy to read, they would establish "abundantly" that CE 399 was found at Parkland. There is no "evidence" or "chain of custody" in a technical legal sense outside of a courtroom, but out here in the real world CE 399 and the chain of custody we have from the documents is certainly sufficient to establish a solid case that CE 399 was found at Parkland. There is zero evidence to rebut this, and there is no conspiratorial scenario that even makes sense.

You had to ask AI if a chain of custody is evidence??? That's like asking if a recipe is a pie. No, the testimony and documents establishing the chain of custody are the evidence. Your efforts at one-upmanship have a rather consistently amusing way of backfiring and making you seem a bit dense.

"CE 399 is the physical item of evidence."

That's right, old timer...CE399 is an item of physical evidence.
Well done.

"Testimonial and documentary evidence would establish the chain of custody of CE 399."

Way to go!
You're two for two.
Testimonial and documentary evidence would establish the chain of custody.

"Ya see, the chain of custody is the evidence."

Ooooooh nooooo!
What on earth were you thinking when you posted this tripe.
Maybe you think the chain of custody is an actual chain that has bits of fibre trapped in it or DNA samples.
It's great how your delusion thinks you are in a position to lecture me, or anyone, about how a chain of custody works.

I've asked for evidence that puts CE399 at Parkland Hospital.
You replied that you had "abundant evidence" to show this was the case.
This "abundant evidence" turns out to be nothing more than your buffoonish attempt to claim that the chain of custody constitutes evidence, in and of itself 
Now you are back-tracking on that ridiculous claim, just as you are back-tracking on your equally ridiculous claim that you have "abundant" evidence placing CE399 at Parkland.
Now you've posted this bizarre sentence in order to change how you originally used the word "abundant" -
"...they [the documentary and testimonial evidence] would establish "abundantly" that CE 399 was found at Parkland." Really??

I'll let you in on a secret, old timer...I've known all along that there isn't a scrap of evidence placing CE399 at Parkland Hospital. I've just been stringing you along because I also know that you know there isn't a scrap of evidence but your delusion won't allow you to admit this.
Rather than just hold your hands up to this fact you have posted some truly idiotic nonsense which you have rightly been called out on.

The Warren Commission Sham entered CE399 into evidence subject to proof that it was the bullet found at Parkland Hospital.
This proof was to be elicited from the testimony of the man who discovered the bullet - Darrell Tomlinson.
Extraordinarily, Tomlinson wasn't asked a single question about the bullet he discovered other than which stretcher he found it on.
He wasn't asked to describe it.
He wasn't shown the bullet to identify.
He wasn't even shown a picture of it to identify.
The man who discovered the bullet at Parkland was not asked to identify that bullet

Let that sink in.

So, the proof that the identification of CE399 was 'subject to' never materialised.
And this 'oversight' was never questioned.
Through sleight of hand, CE399 was entered into evidence as the bullet found at Parkland with zero proof of identification that it was such.
The Warren Commission Sham at it's finest.

[Zeon Mason]

I think that pointed nose bullet that was found on the stretcher was the actual bullet that struck JFK and JC. It probably fell out while JC was on the stretcher and rolled to the side and wedged onto a gap  between the padding and edge of the stretcher.

somebody can post a picture of the type stretcher that JC was laying on to see if my proposal is a probable possibility or not.

? Was raised by Jim Hawthorne if the pointed bullet would been damaged enough that it should have been noticed by the 4 witness who saw and handled it before it was sent up to higher authority.

I’m thinking the pointed bullet did NOT wobble:yaw as much as a ball  nosed MC bullet would, so the conical shape made it easier to penetrate and go between rib bones and then penetrate , nose first, thru JCs wrist bone more cleanly, leaving only small flakes.

So perhaps this pointed bullet was seen and handled and placed into that empty envelope that had 7.65mm written on it ( that envelope which was discovered in the archives a while back and still a mystery where the envelope came from.

So the switch was made when this pointed bullet was handed off in that envelope to somebody at the FBI who then looked over the medical report of JC. They fabricated the CE 399 bullet as best they could do to be consistent with being squeezed between 2 ribs and then removed a bit from the nose to match the 4 flakes that Nurse Bell testified she placed into a small envelope which had several initials on it as it was passed up the chain of command.

[Lance Payette]

I think that pointed nose bullet that was found on the stretcher was the actual bullet that struck JFK and JC. It probably fell out while JC was on the stretcher and rolled to the side and wedged onto a gap  between the padding and edge of the stretcher.

somebody can post a picture of the type stretcher that JC was laying on to see if my proposal is a probable possibility or not.

? Was raised by Jim Hawthorne if the pointed bullet would been damaged enough that it should have been noticed by the 4 witness who saw and handled it before it was sent up to higher authority.

I’m thinking the pointed bullet did NOT wobble:yaw as much as a ball  nosed MC bullet would, so the conical shape made it easier to penetrate and go between rib bones and then penetrate , nose first, thru JCs wrist bone more cleanly, leaving only small flakes.

So perhaps this pointed bullet was seen and handled and placed into that empty envelope that had 7.65mm written on it ( that envelope which was discovered in the archives a while back and still a mystery where the envelope came from.

So the switch was made when this pointed bullet was handed off in that envelope to somebody at the FBI who then looked over the medical report of JC. They fabricated the CE 399 bullet as best they could do to be consistent with being squeezed between 2 ribs and then removed a bit from the nose to match the 4 flakes that Nurse Bell testified she placed into a small envelope which had several initials on it as it was passed up the chain of command.

Except Tomlinson said CE 399 appeared to be the same bullet he had found. (He told Raymond Marcus the same thing in a 1966 interview: https://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/12/marcus-tomlinson-interview-7-25-66.html.) You can tell from his WC testimony that he was fastidious about not saying more than he could really say, and "appears to be the same" was all he could honestly say. (Although he wasn't shown CE 399 at the WC, he had previously been interviewed by the SS and FBI and his entire WC testimony was about finding the bullet.)

In legal parlance, "identification" for purposes of the chain of custody means the witness can say flatly, "Yes, that's the same bullet - there are my initials" (or perhaps "I recognize the flattened end"). This is what Rankin was after, and why we read in the FBI paperwork that Tomlinson, Wright and Johnsen (I believe) "could not identify" CE 399. It doesn't mean at all that anyone said "No, that's not it" - it merely means they said something like "Well, it could be, but I can't be sure that's it." We need to remember, for Tomlinson and Wright in particular this was just a slug found on a stretcher that they briefly handled; it was hardly the biggest thing happening at Parkland that day.

Your scenario also has to deal with my Three Stooges fantasy above. Why did the FBI just not quietly say the pointy-headed bullet had been checked out and had nothing to do with the JFKA? What was the NEED for the incredibly elaborate hoax of creating CE 399? Does no one see the irony that "NO WAY IN HELL could CE 399 have done all the damage the SBT says it did!" - but we have no problem with a pointy-headed slug doing all that damage and, even more incredibly than CE 399, remaining pristine???

[Zeon Mason]

Well Lance, if an obvious “pointed” nose bullet was found on the JC stretcher, it’s totally illogical that it was planted there by a conspirator. Agree on that point yes?

And planting CE 399 on the stretcher doesn’t make sense either because it’s kind of too early to have all the medical info and xrays of JC plus know the trajectory path, for the conspirators to know how much to deform the bullet to match.

Agree on that yes?

So presuming that 4 witness think they saw a “pointed” bullet which none  of them remembered being deformed , flattened partially, with  extruding lead , or a knicked BALL shaped nose, then one must conclude it’s not very probable that CE 399 was the bullet they saw.


Therefore I propose the scenario the “pointed” bullet most likely had fallen out of JCs thigh , rolled off the side of stretcher into the gap, then was found later by Wright , that it was placed in that envelope marked 7.65mm and sent up  To higher FBI.

Then  , after more information known about the trajectory , and medical report of JC and type rifle found in TSBD, that somebody realized the problem and switched the 7.65mm pointed bullet for a 6.5mm MC ball nosed bullet which they could have squeezed a little with pliers and removed a tiny portion of the nose so as to match with the % of flakes they knew about from having observed JC medical report and seeing the X-rays.

LNs have argued that the minimal deformation of CE 399 is not so improbable given the path of the bullet in the SBT trajectory.

So I’m asking if a conical shaped 7.65 mm bullet could follow this same trajectory and be even less deformed than CE 339 is? So minimally deformed as to be not noticeable by the 4 witnesses?

Equally a question, if CE 399 was the bullet that the 4 witness saw, would they not have  noticed the deformation, the squeezed out portion of lead and the small chip in the obvious BALL shaped nose?

[Lance Payette]

Well Lance, if an obvious “pointed” nose bullet was found on the JC stretcher, it’s totally illogical that it was planted there by a conspirator. Agree on that point yes?

And planting CE 399 on the stretcher doesn’t make sense either because it’s kind of too early to have all the medical info and xrays of JC plus know the trajectory path, for the conspirators to know how much to deform the bullet to match.

Agree on that yes?

So presuming that 4 witness think they saw a “pointed” bullet which none  of them remembered being deformed , flattened partially, with  extruding lead , or a knicked BALL shaped nose, then one must conclude it’s not very probable that CE 399 was the bullet they saw.


Therefore I propose the scenario the “pointed” bullet most likely had fallen out of JCs thigh , rolled off the side of stretcher into the gap, then was found later by Wright , that it was placed in that envelope marked 7.65mm and sent up  To higher FBI.

Then  , after more information known about the trajectory , and medical report of JC and type rifle found in TSBD, that somebody realized the problem and switched the 7.65mm pointed bullet for a 6.5mm MC ball nosed bullet which they could have squeezed a little with pliers and removed a tiny portion of the nose so as to match with the % of flakes they knew about from having observed JC medical report and seeing the X-rays.

LNs have argued that the minimal deformation of CE 399 is not so improbable given the path of the bullet in the SBT trajectory.

So I’m asking if a conical shaped 7.65 mm bullet could follow this same trajectory and be even less deformed than CE 339 is? So minimally deformed as to be not noticeable by the 4 witnesses?

Equally a question, if CE 399 was the bullet that the 4 witness saw, would they not have  noticed the deformation, the squeezed out portion of lead and the small chip in the obvious BALL shaped nose?

You lost me there. Tomlinson, not Wright, found the bullet. Tomlinson gave it to Wright, who put it in his pocket and then gave it to Johnsen.

Who are the four witnesses who think they saw a pointed bullet? No one said that until Thompson and Aguilar spoke with Wright in 1967 - and then even that story became quite confused when Wright later telephoned Thompson (see the Thompson presentation that Tim Nickerson posted in the chain of custody thread). In fact, Tomlinson - the guy who found the bullet - said CE 399 looked like what he found.

Do I think Tomlinson, Wright and Johnsen would have noticed the damage to CE 399? I would say "very unlikely." On casual examination, it really does look quite pristine. My guess would be, neither Tomlinson nor Wright necessarily connected it to the JFKA or paid all that much attention (Wright was merely the Parkland personnel director). I think if either Tomlinson or Wright had noticed the damage to CE 399, one or both would have identified it when asked by the FBI at Rankin's request: "Sure, that's it - I remember the way it was flattened at the bottom."

Lastly, it seems inconceivable to me that anyone informed about JFK's and JBC's wounds would have fabricated CE 399 as the explanation for those wounds. It may actually be the explanation as the SBT posits, but if you gave 1000 ballistics experts a description of the wounds and asked them to fabricate a bullet responsible for them, I am confident you would not get ONE that looked like CE 399. This actually cuts in favor of CE 399's authenticity - no one would generate a fake that looked THAT implausible.

I'm also still puzzled as to the supposed need for a fake. Why not just say the bullet on the stretcher had nothing to do with the JFKA? If you think you need more evidence to explain the wounds, create a badly damaged bullet or some more fragments with Oswald's rifle and say they were found in the limo.

I just don't see how a conspiratorial explanation makes any sense.