The Warren Commission Sham

[Dan O'meara]

Edited and bumped for Danny Boy O'meara:

Dear Danny Boy,

You keep avoiding the implications of your "case."

You refuse to answer the questions:

1) "How the heck did the bad guys manage to take possession of Oswald's Carcano so they could fire CE-399 through it?"

2) How in the world did the bad guys deform CE-399 in such a strange way?", and

3) "Why in tarnation did the bad guys deform CE-399 in such a strange way?"

Until you can give plausible answers to these questions, you're just a laughingstock, dude.

-- Tom

Quid Pro Quo bro.
Time for you to start answering questions.
What evidence makes you believe CE399 was found at Parkland?
It can't be a debate if it's just me answering questions.

[Dan O'meara]

I don't need to help Thomas out. Tom is asking the "What sense does that make?" questions that are central to any discussion of CE 399. You cannot answer those fundamental questions in a way that makes conspiratorial sense because - wait for it - no one can. There is abundant evidence that CE 399 was found at Parkland with no contrary evidence apart from what Wright told Tink Thompson three years later. Those who said they "couldn't identify" CE 399 were not "refusing" but simply saying they had no way of knowing it was the same bullet they had handled.

Good grief, I started a thread on THIS VERY TOPIC - "Chain of custody of CE 399 - big problem or much ado about nothing?" - in April of this year: https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,4291.msg164009.html#msg164009. The issue was beaten to death, or so it seems to me. Yet here we go again, as though it had never been discussed.

This is the problem with a forum such as this. There is no historical memory. An issue is beaten to death in April, pops right back up in June, and August, and three times the next year, and four times the year after that. The same old, same old over and over. If you want to know my thoughts in detail, I refer you to the April thread. The first page has three long posts by me.

There is a distinction between "having all the answers" - which I do not claim - and having a reasonable, evidence-based position that can answer the "What sense does that make?" questions. As I've said previously, the Conspiracy Game pretends that if we don't have absolute ontological certainty then we can have no position at all - one theory is as good as another, even if one of them is plausible, evidence-based, and can answer the "What sense does that make?" questions and the other can't. Whatever the provenance of CE 399 may be, whatever Wright may have told Thompson, whatever those in the chain may have said when asked to identify CE 399, I am satisfied that it was fired from Oswald's rifle on 11-22, struck its target, and made its way into Parkland to be found on a stretcher. This is what the best evidence indicates and what can most plausibly and reasonably answer the "What sense does that make?" questions.

"You can't prove to an ontological certainty CE 399 was found at Parkland! You can't prove to an ontological certainty it wasn't planted! You can't prove to an ontological certainty it wasn't created in the FBI Lab!" No, I can't. What those who make such assertions can't do - as Tom keeps trying to point out - is answer "What sense would that make?"

There is abundant evidence that CE 399 was found at Parkland

Great!
Just post that evidence in your next Reply.
That is, basically, the question I have been asking.
The reason these things go on and on is because people like you won't answer a straightforward question.
Just post this "abundant evidence" which you have at your fingertips and we can move on with this issue..
I've answered every question asked of me but you guys don't answer anything.
That's why things just go round and round.

POST THE EVIDENCE IN YOUR NEXT REPLY!

[Tom Graves]

Quid Pro Quo bro.
Time for you to start answering questions.
What evidence makes you believe CE399 was found at Parkland?
It can't be a debate if it's just me answering questions.

The ball's in your court, dude.

I can totally understand why you "have no idea" how to go about answering my three questions (above) in such a way that won't contradict your cockamamie theory.

That's because the only logical answer is:

1) Unless Russophile Ruthie or probable KGB agent Marina loaned the Carcano to the "bad guys," they couldn't have fired CE-399 through it, and

2) Given JBC's wounds (and the fact that fibers from his clothing were found in his wrist wound), the only way CE-399 could end up being deformed the way is is if it penetrated JBC's back, shattered his fifth rib tangentially, and, while was twirling / tumbling, fractured his radial bone rear-end first.

[Lance Payette]

There is abundant evidence that CE 399 was found at Parkland

Great!
Just post that evidence in your next Reply.
That is, basically, the question I have been asking.
The reason these things go on and on is because people like you won't answer a straightforward question.
Just post this "abundant evidence" which you have at your fingertips and we can move on with this issue..
I've answered every question asked of me but you guys don't answer anything.
That's why things just go round and round.

POST THE EVIDENCE IN YOUR NEXT REPLY!

You seem to think that by assuming the role of Question Man, the rest of us are obligated to play Answer People. The "found at Parkland" issue is disposed of by the chain of custody beginning at Parkland. It was dealt with in the thread I started and to which I referred you. I am not going to regurgitate it all here. There are no significant issues with the chain of custody from Tomlinson to the FBI Lab with the exception of what Wright, who just happened to have a pointy-headed bullet in his desk, ostensibly told Tink Thompson several years later. As I pointed out in the earlier thread (1) this is inconsistent with what Wright originally said, (2) we don't know what he would have said under oath, and (3) his "outlier" testimony (if he had stuck with the pointy-headed version under oath) likely would carry no weight if those on either side of him in the chain of custody (Johnson and Wright) said CE 399 appeared to be the same bullet. I am not going to repeat it all here. (You will note that even Wright's supposed pointy-headed bullet was as pristine as CE 399 - does that seem likely?)

Here's a novel idea: Instead of playing Question Man, how about setting forth your theory of CE 399? That should be simple enough, no? Without asking you any questions, I will then patiently and in my most statesmanlike manner explain why this makes no sense. Regardless of whether CE 399 were planted on a stretcher at Parkland or were later substituted by the FBI for a pointy-headed bullet actually found at Parkland, producing a bullet from Oswald's rifle in the highly unusual condition of CE 399, and that raises as many questions as CE 399, and then using that bullet to attempt to explain JFK's and JBC's numerous wounds, simply makes no sense. A far more plausible, badly damaged bullet that would have raised no questions at all would actually have been far easier to produce. Once again, a conspiratorial theory must posit the Three Stooges as conspirators.

[Dan O'meara]

You seem to think that by assuming the role of Question Man, the rest of us are obligated to play Answer People. The "found at Parkland" issue is disposed of by the chain of custody beginning at Parkland. It was dealt with in the thread I started and to which I referred you. I am not going to regurgitate it all here. There are no significant issues with the chain of custody from Tomlinson to the FBI Lab with the exception of what Wright, who just happened to have a pointy-headed bullet in his desk, ostensibly told Tink Thompson several years later. As I pointed out in the earlier thread (1) this is inconsistent with what Wright originally said, (2) we don't know what he would have said under oath, and (3) his "outlier" testimony (if he had stuck with the pointy-headed version under oath) likely would carry no weight if those on either side of him in the chain of custody (Johnson and Wright) said CE 399 appeared to be the same bullet. I am not going to repeat it all here. (You will note that even Wright's supposed pointy-headed bullet was as pristine as CE 399 - does that seem likely?)

Here's a novel idea: Instead of playing Question Man, how about setting forth your theory of CE 399? That should be simple enough, no? Without asking you any questions, I will then patiently and in my most statesmanlike manner explain why this makes no sense. Regardless of whether CE 399 were planted on a stretcher at Parkland or were later substituted by the FBI for a pointy-headed bullet actually found at Parkland, producing a bullet from Oswald's rifle in the highly unusual condition of CE 399, and that raises as many questions as CE 399, and then using that bullet to attempt to explain JFK's and JBC's numerous wounds, simply makes no sense. A far more plausible, badly damaged bullet that would have raised no questions at all would actually have been far easier to produce. Once again, a conspiratorial theory must posit the Three Stooges as conspirators.

You have made this claim - "There is abundant evidence that CE 399 was found at Parkland." These are your words.
You have been asked to post this evidence.
I'm not sure where you think you are, but on this forum you don't just get to make claims like this without citing the evidence backing up this claim.
It is your claim.
You were moaning and crying about how these issues have been beaten to death, so stop prevaricating and post this "abundant" evidence for CE399 being found at Parkland.
You could have posted this abundant evidence instead of the lengthy reply you actually posted.
It's no wonder these things drag on.

[Lance Payette]

You have made this claim - "There is abundant evidence that CE 399 was found at Parkland." These are your words.
You have been asked to post this evidence.
I'm not sure where you think you are, but on this forum you don't just get to make claims like this without citing the evidence backing up this claim.
It is your claim.
You were moaning and crying about how these issues have been beaten to death, so stop prevaricating and post this "abundant" evidence for CE399 being found at Parkland.
You could have posted this abundant evidence instead of the lengthy reply you actually posted.
It's no wonder these things drag on.

Ya see, the chain of custody is the evidence. The chain of custody is discussed extensively at the thread I linked. If you would like to believe that CE 399 is not the bullet Tomlinson found on the stretcher at Parkland, you are certainly free to do so, but you will have an uphill battle because the chain of custody is solid and you cannot articulate a conspiratorial reason that makes any sense as to why CE 399 would not be the bullet found at Parkland. Is it your theory that the actual bullet was a pristine pointy-headed one like Wright and Thompson discussed in 1966, even though Wright had previously told Odum that CE 399 "looked like" the one Tomlinson had handed him? Uh-huh, that makes sense. You REALLY need to read the chain of custody thread.

I get the feeling you actually enjoy this mental masturbation - in which case you must lead an exceedingly dull life. Even though my life actually is exceedingly dull at the moment thanks to Achilles surgery, I'm not this desperate.

[Lance Payette]

Trying to help you out here. This is the best I can do with a conspiracy scenario.

1. Tomlinson finds pristine, pointy-headed bullet on stretcher at Parkland. Check.

2. Tomlinson gives pristine, pointy-headed bullet to Wright. Check.

3. Wright gives pristine, pointy-headed bullet to Secret Service guy Johnsen. Check.

4. And on it goes with pristine, pointy-headed bullet up the chain of custody until someone at the FBI – we’ll call him Special Agent Curly – slaps his forehead and says:

“Men, we have a problem. This pointy-headed bullet is not from a Carcano. It may well suggest a second gunman, and we obviously don’t want that.”

5. SA Moe quickly interjects:

“What reason do we have to think it has anything to do with the assassination, Agent Curly? Let’s just flush it.”

6. Whereupon SA Larry chimes in:

“Can’t do that, Agent Moe. The two schmucks at Parkland and the Secret Service dope know we have it. Yes, we could say it had nothing to do with the assassination, but CTers 50 years from now aren’t going to buy that flimsy story.”

7. Curly, Larry and Moe think, think, think. At last, a 15W refrigerator bulb goes off in Larry’s head:

“This the plan, men. The Lab guys fire a bullet from Oswald’s rifle and we say it was the one found on the stretcher. Genius, no?”

8. Moe quickly adds:

“But since the two schmucks at Parkland and the Secret Service dope know the pointy-headed bullet was pristine, our substitute must be pristine as well.”

9. Curly, the brains of the outfit (40W bulb), adds thoughtfully:

“This is getting kind of complicated. What injuries would a pristine bullet from Oswald’s Carcano supposedly have inflicted? Are we perhaps not just creating red flags we don’t need to be creating? What will CTers be saying in 50 years?”

10. But Larry and Moe outvote Curly, whereupon the FBI Lab cooperates in creating a more or less pristine-looking Carcano bullet with extensive damage to its posterior – it takes 73 attempts and five hours, but no price is too great to pay – and dummies up a lab report. The bullet becomes CE 399. Whew!

11. Our heroes obviously can’t really show CE 399 to the two schmucks at Parkland or anyone else in the chain who saw the pristine, pointy-headed bullet, so when asked to establish a chain of custody by Rankin (damn him!) they fake a variety of memos, Airtels and whatnot.

12. Because our heroes are exceedingly clever, or perhaps exceedingly not (as the case may be), they don’t do anything as suspiciously obvious as writing the fake memos and Airtels as though anyone in the chain of custody could actually identify what is now CE 399. No, for the sake of authenticity those in the chain of custody are reported in the fake documents as saying merely that CE 399 “looks like” the found bullet or that they “can’t be sure” or “can’t identify" it. A nice touch, no?

There ya go. Makes sense to me, and I really find it fairly plausible – at least so long as the FBI actually had agents named Curly, Larry and Moe.

[Dan O'meara]

Ya see, the chain of custody is the evidence. The chain of custody is discussed extensively at the thread I linked. If you would like to believe that CE 399 is not the bullet Tomlinson found on the stretcher at Parkland, you are certainly free to do so, but you will have an uphill battle because the chain of custody is solid and you cannot articulate a conspiratorial reason that makes any sense as to why CE 399 would not be the bullet found at Parkland. Is it your theory that the actual bullet was a pristine pointy-headed one like Wright and Thompson discussed in 1966, even though Wright had previously told Odum that CE 399 "looked like" the one Tomlinson had handed him? Uh-huh, that makes sense. You REALLY need to read the chain of custody thread.

I get the feeling you actually enjoy this mental masturbation - in which case you must lead an exceedingly dull life. Even though my life actually is exceedingly dull at the moment thanks to Achilles surgery, I'm not this desperate.

Ya see, the chain of custody is the evidence.

 
What??
The chain of custody is the evidence??
A chain of custody is NOT evidence!
This is the most absurd thing you've ever posted, and that's up against some stiff competition.
Maybe I'm losing my mind completely. I'm just going to Google "Is a chain of custody evidence?"



A chain of custody is not evidence.
Are you supposed to be a lawyer 
And this is the "abundant evidence" you were talking about 

There is not one scrap of evidence that CE399 was found at Parkland Hospital.
You are so deluded you've convinced yourself there is "abundant evidence" but there is none.
Don't you feel rather foolish?
The chain of custody is the evidence!! 
That's a classic.