The Warren Commission Sham

[Tom Graves]

Having to wade through your nonsense posts is starting to get a bit tedious, Lance.
I have to assume that you are a through-and-through Lone Nutter and in highlighting the disgraceful sham that was the Warren Commission, I'm attacking your 'scripture' which you will defend with any amount of irrational nonsense.

Where to start? 

"Alyea was a respected local photographer. He had utterly no agenda to lie about anything. He insists the lunch remains were, in fact, found on the 5th floor, which just happens to be where BRW first said he ate lunch. He suggests the officers' heard an erroneous newscast saying the 6th floor, put this in their reports, and then maintained the fiction. If true - and we'll never know, but Alyea was credible and adamant - your "facts" go poof."

This is the crux of your argument against the fact that six of the first officers on the scene described seeing lunch remains in the southeast corner of the 6th floor.
According to your embarrassing suggestion, all six officers heard an "erroneous newscast saying the 6th floor, put this in their reports".
Wow!
It is a FACT that all six officers describe features specific to the southeast corner of the 6th floor as the location of the lunch remains. The notion that they were all somehow individually fooled by an erroneous newscast is truly foolish and something you should retract. Just in case you genuinely don't understand this incredibly simple point let's take a section of the report of Luke Mooney written up the day after the assassination:

I then went on back to the 6th floor and went direct to the far corner and then discovered a cubby hole which had been constructed out of cartons which protected it from sight and found where someone had been in an area of perhaps 2 feet surrounded by cardboard cartons of books. Inside this cubby hole affair was three more boxes so arranged as to provide what appeared to be a rest for a rifle. On one of these cartons was a half-eaten piece of chicken. The minute that I saw the expended shells on the floor,

Mooney discovers the Sniper's Nest. He is describing this moment in his report. He is describing what he sees - "an area of perhaps 2 feet surrounded by cardboard cartons of books", "three more boxes so arranged as to provide what appeared to be a rest for a rifle", "a half-eaten piece of chicken" and "expended shells on the floor".
There is zero uncertainty as to the location Mooney (or any of the other officers) is describing - the Sniper's Nest in the southeast corner of the 6th floor.
Are you seriously suggesting that Mooney heard an erroneous newscast that made him believe he saw a half eaten piece of chicken on one of the Sniper's Nest boxes?
Did this fictional erroneous newscast mention a half eaten piece of chicken?
Is there any evidence of this fictional and completely bogus erroneous newscast? Of course there isn't.

Fact - all six officers describe lunch remains in the location of the Sniper's Nest.
Fact - this discovery was made before Fritz, Alyea or the crime lab officers were on the scene.
Fact - the discovery of these remains on the Sniper's Nest was completely ignored by the Warren Commission

Remember, this forum is a written record and once you've posted something it stays up for all to see.
Your suggestion - that all six officers independently heard the same erroneous newscast which tricked them into believing they were seeing lunch remains on top of the stacks of boxes that formed the Sniper's Nest - is as bad as any Tinfoil nonsense I've ever heard of.
Didn't you think this through?
Aren't you embarrassed for suggesting this.
Your desperation to try to make this testimony go away is making you post some real nonsense.

"You are doing exactly what Bugliosi described - assigning significance to an inconsistency in the evidence while being unable to explain why it is significant"

Nutters have a variety of strategies for dealing with issues that reveal the lie of their narrative, most just disappear for a while and come back spouting the same nonsense when the coast is clear. Those who stick around they rely on misrepresentation, willful ignorance, selective memory loss and outright lying.
The above quote come under "selective memory loss".
Here, Lance is accusing me of being unable to explain why this issue is significant.
He made the same accusation a few posts ago [REPLY#40] and it was answered in full [REPLY#54]
I have no doubt a few more posts will go by and he will make the same accusation again.
It's really tedious.

"Why would the "sham" WC not have simply cleaned up the issue instead of leaving it for all to see? "

How, exactly, would the WC have "cleaned up the issue"?
This just seems like another nonsensical comment, another meaningless contribution to the discussion.
Whatever the case, in a previous post I asked you this:

Why don't you give us an analysis of what the officers reported and why you think it doesn't matter


Rather than your meaningless posts why not go through the testimonies/statements of the officers in the OP.
Explain where the uncertainty is in the location these officers are describing.
Explain how Alyea's report of lunch remains on the 5th floor changes the testimonies/statements of these officers.
Explain why this evidence of someone other than Oswald being in the Sniper's Nest is irrelevant.

If the only argument you can offer is that Alyeas comments mean these officers didn't really see what they saw, then you should take a step back and maybe return to the thread when the topic has moved on.

How many bad guys and bad gals do you figure were involved, altogether, in the planning, the "patsy-ing," the shooting, and the all-important cover up, O'meara?

Oodles and gobs?

[Dan O'meara]

How many bad guys and bad gals do you figure were involved, altogether, in the planning, the "patsy-ing," the shooting, and the all-important cover up, O'meara?

Oodles and gobs?

Two for the planning, patsy-ing and shooting.
A patsy called Oswald.
No cover up, just massive incompetence and an overwhelming certainty that Oswald was their man from the moment he was arrested. The DPD seemed absolutely convinced Oswald was a lone assassin from the get go. Hoover determined Oswald was the lone assassin less than 48 hours after the assassination. Nearly all investigating went down this trail.
The Warren Commission rubber stamped the FBI's pre-determined conclusion that Oswald was the lone assassin.

[Tom Graves]

Two [bad guys or bad gals were needed] for the planning, the patsy-ing, and the shooting.
A patsy called Oswald.
No cover up, just massive incompetence and an overwhelming certainty that Oswald was their man from the moment he was arrested. The DPD seemed absolutely convinced Oswald was a lone assassin from the get go. Hoover determined Oswald was the lone assassin less than 48 hours after the assassination. Nearly all investigating went down this trail.
The Warren Commission rubber stamped the FBI's pre-determined conclusion that Oswald was the lone assassin.

Do you think the evil, evil CIA tricked Oswald into killing JFK after it found out that the motorcade would be passing by the TSBD?

If not, which bad guy or bad gal either got LHO the job in the TSBD or arranged for the motorcade to pass by it?

How many shots, if any, were fired from the 6th-floor "Sniper's Nest"?

If any, did the bad guy or bad gal who fired it (or fired them) work in the TSBD? If not, how and when did they get into the TSBD?

If any shots were fired from the sixth-floor "Sniper's Nest," was it / were they fired from the Carcano short-rifle that was found on the sixth floor?

Was the Carcano short-rifle that was found on the sixth floor Oswald's?

If not, who made it look as though it was his, and who placed his prints and fibers similar to those comprising the blanket in Mrs. Paine's garage on it?

Did CE-399 wound JFK and/or JBC?

If so, do you think CE-399 wounded both JFK and JBC the way "The Single Bullet Hypothesis" says it did?

If not, how and why did the bad guys and/or bad gals deform CE-399 the way they did?

If at least one of the shots was fired from some place other than the sixth-floor "Sniper's Nest," where was it / were they fired from?

Did any of them hit JFB or JBC?

Regardless, why were only JFK and JBC wounded, and why was the only damage to the limo that which was sustained by the chrome strip in the front and the windshield (which had lost a chunk of glass from its outer layer and had a residue of lead on its inside surface)?

I could go on and on . . .

[Dan O'meara]

Do you think the evil, evil CIA tricked Oswald into killing JFK after it found out that the motorcade would be passing by the TSBD?

No

If not, which bad guy or bad gal either got LHO the job in the TSBD or arranged for the motorcade to pass by it?

Any motorcade going from Love Field to the Trade Mart goes past the Depository building.
The '60 Kennedy motorcade passed directly in front of the TSBD building.

How many shots, if any, were fired from the 6th-floor "Sniper's Nest"?

I think three but Jack Nessan makes a good argument for two.

If any, did the bad guy or bad gal who fired it (or fired them) work in the TSBD? If not, how and when did they get into the TSBD?

In keeping my conspiracy theory as simple as possible I believe the assassination was 'in-house' and that the shooter was an employee of the TSBD.

If any shots were fired from the sixth-floor "Sniper's Nest," was it / were they fired from the Carcano short-rifle that was found on the sixth floor?

I believe so although I'm not certain.
Every single piece of useful ballistics evidence was tampered with in some way.
Is that suspicious or just massive incompetence, it's hard to say.

Was the Carcano short-rifle that was found on the sixth floor Oswald's?

I accept that it was.
I'm not sure I see the point of trying to frame Oswald with someone else's rifle.

If not, who made it look as though it was his, and who placed his prints and fibers similar to those comprising the blanket in Mrs. Paine's garage on it?

Doesn't require an answer as I believe it was his rifle.

Did CE-399 wound JFK and/or JBC?

Not a chance.
The admission of CE399 into evidence is one of the more disgraceful episodes in the Warren Commission sham

If so, do you think CE-399 wounded both JFK and JBC the way "The Single Bullet Hypothesis" says it did?

I am totally convinced by the evidence that both JFK and JBC were simultaneously shot through by the same bullet.
There is not a chance that this bullet was CE399

If not, how and why did the bad guys and/or bad gals deform CE-399 the way they did?

You deform a bullet by firing it into something.
Test firing into goats ribs deformed the bullet in a similar way to CE399
However, firing a bullet into wrist bone smashed the bullet up in a way that CE399 most certainly was not.

If at least one of the shots was fired from some place other than the sixth-floor "Sniper's Nest," where was it / were they fired from?

I don't believe shots were fired from anywhere other than the Sniper's Nest.

Did any of them hit JFB or JBC?

Doesn't require an answer as I don't believe shots were fired from elsewhere.

Regardless, why were only JFK and JBC wounded, and why was the only damage to the limo that which was sustained by the chrome strip in the front and the windshield (which had lost a chunk of glass from its outer layer and had a residue of lead on its inside surface)?

JFK and JBC were shot through by the first bullet. This bullet fragmented upon striking JBC's wristbone.
The second bullet was the headshot. This bullet also fragmented. Some of these fragments struck the windshield and chrome trim causing Greer and Kellerman to duck from the "flurry" of shots.
I believe the third shot was pulled high, hit a concrete manhole cover and fragmented, part of this went on to injure Tague.

I could go on and on . . .

Please do, I'm just getting started.

[Tom Graves]

1) Who brought Oswald's short-rifle into the TSBD and put it on the sixth floor?

2) What "tampered" ballistics evidence prevents you from believing the bullets were fired from it?

3) Where do you believe CE-399 was found -- in the limo or in Parkland Hospital?

4) How did CE-399 end up with no damage to its nose?

[Dan O'meara]

1) Who brought Oswald's short-rifle into the TSBD and put it on the sixth floor?

I know nothing about rifles but I am a bit confused about why you keep calling it a "short-rifle". As I understand it, Oswald ordered and paid for a 36" rifle but the rifle found on the 6th floor was a 40" rifle. Would they both be referred to as short-rifles?
There are a multitude of details about this case that trouble me and one is Oswald supposedly disassembling his rifle before bringing it to work. I never understood that. Even disassembled this rifle was 36" which was the same length as the rifle he originally ordered so it's not like he was bringing a package to work that wasn't the length of a rifle. And why did he feel the need to make a special case for it when he already had one at home? And when did he make this paper case? Because of the tape used he would have had to have made it at the wrapping table. When did that happen? Why would he think to do that? Troy West hardly ever left his position at the wrapping table, even during lunch. And why did Frazier and his sister constantly insist the package Oswald carried was so short it couldn't possibly have carried a rifle, disassembled or not. They were hardly more than kids being threatened by the DPD, why not just say it was a few inches longer?

Fortunately, because I don't believe Oswald took the shots and was an unwitting participant in the assassination, I don't have to bother with any of this.
The ideal situation would be to have a conspirator who arrived at the TSBD before anyone else did and had the place to himself. He could place a fully assembled rifle wherever he wanted. What we do know is that Oswald didn't assemble the rifle as he hid in the southeast corner of the 6th floor after the floor-laying crew had gone down to lunch.

2) What "tampered" ballistics evidence prevents you from believing the bullets were fired from it?

Apart from a couple of small pieces removed from JFK's head and some tiny fragments found in the limo ALL the ballistic evidence is highly dubious in terms of how it was handled.

3) Where do you believe CE-399 was found -- in the limo or in Parkland Hospital?

Neither.

4) How did CE-399 end up with no damage to its nose?

It never struck JBC's wrist bone.

[Tom Graves]

The ideal situation would be to have a conspirator arrive at the TSBD before anyone else did and have the place to himself.

A conspirator with Oswald's short-rifle?

Apart from a couple of small pieces removed from JFK's head and some tiny fragments found in the limo, ALL of the ballistic evidence is highly dubious in terms of how it was handled.

How were the large bullet fragments that were found inside the limo and matched to Oswald's short-rifle mishandled?

I believe CE-399 was found neither in the limo nor in Parkland Hospital. (paraphrased)

How did a bad guy or bad gal get it admitted into evidence?

CE-399 never struck JBC's wrist bone.

How, specifically, did your two conspirators damage CE-399, and why did they deform it so strangely?