T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17

[Richard Smith]

I still think the main problem is the insistence on keeping the Mcwatters bus ride part of the WC theory valid.

Imo that’s in serious question because of Bledsoe on the bus , claiming to have seen a hole  in the sleeve of a brown shirt Oswald was not wearing until AFTER he left the boarding house.

Are we CTs mistaken that Oswald was Wearing the reddish brown shirt at the TSBD and did not change out of that shirt to the other brown shirt with hole in sleeve until after he got to his boarding room?

And Mcwatters did not.actually ID Oswald imo.

The bus transfer ticket had no prints of either Oswald or Mcwatters on it which it should have had especially being paper. Given the pressure the FBI and Fritz were under from LBJ to make sure Oswald was their man, it’s not that unreasonable to suggest the transfer ticket may have been embellishment”.

So why not  just discard this part of the WC theory of Oswald as “unconfirmed” and just go with the more substantial witness Whaley the Taxi driver and his manifest which had Oswald entering his cab somewhere  between 12:30 and not later than 12:45?

In that scenario, Oswald had left TSBD by 3 minutes post shots ( presuming DPD officer Barnett locked the doors as he claimed ) and then 7 minutes later after traveling the 7 blocks to go directly to the taxi , Oswald could easily have entered Whaleys taxi as early as 12:40. That makes then easy for Oswald to have been at 10th and Patton by 1:07-1:08 and then all witness clocks and estimates match up and the 1:15 DOA document makes sense.

Why would anyone fake Oswald's presence on the bus?  Think of the effort and risk to do so.  The fantasy conspirators would have to figure out which bus was in the vicinity.  Convince the passengers to either confirm Oswald's presence or at least not deny that he got on the bus.  They would have to somehow get a bus transfer from the driver.  They would then have to make sure Oswald was not in the presence of anyone else during this timeframe.  So many variables to handle on the fly in the immediate aftermath of the assassination.  And for what purpose?  The bus takes him nowhere.  He gets off and takes a cab.  It's ridiculous to suggest the bus to nowhere was the product of any conspiracy plan.  In a plan, everything has purpose.  You don't stage things to unnecessarily complicate what is already a complex and risky operation for no apparent reason. 

[Michael Capasse]

Why would anyone fake Oswald's presence on the bus?  Think of the effort and risk to do so.  The fantasy conspirators would have to figure out which bus was in the vicinity.  Convince the passengers to either confirm Oswald's presence or at least not deny that he got on the bus.  They would have to somehow get a bus transfer from the driver.  They would then have to make sure Oswald was not in the presence of anyone else during this timeframe.  So many variables to handle on the fly in the immediate aftermath of the assassination.  And for what purpose?  The bus takes him nowhere.  He gets off and takes a cab.  It's ridiculous to suggest the bus to nowhere was the product of any conspiracy plan.  In a plan, everything has purpose.  You don't stage things to unnecessarily complicate what is already a complex and risky operation for no apparent reason.

you just made up an entire "fantasy plan" and then crossed it all out because it would never work.

[Richard Smith]

you just made up an entire "fantasy plan" and then crossed it all out because it would never work.

Not following.  I didn't make up anything.  Another poster suggested that Oswald was never on the bus even though he had a transfer from the bus driver in his pocket.  I just pointed out that faking Oswald's presence on the bus would be pointless and risky since it does not advance any apparent objective.  The bus doesn't go anywhere, and he quickly gets off.  If you disagree, maybe form your response in terms of a complete thought.  Let me help get you started.  "I believe Oswald was/was not on the bus because..."

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Not following.  I didn't make up anything.  Another poster suggested that Oswald was never on the bus even though he had a transfer from the bus driver in his pocket.  I just pointed out that faking Oswald's presence on the bus would be pointless and risky since it does not advance any apparent objective.  The bus doesn't go anywhere, and he quickly gets off.  If you disagree, maybe form your response in terms of a complete thought.  Let me help get you started.  "I believe Oswald was/was not on the bus because..."

Always happens. We cite the conspiracy claims, point out the illogic of it, how it doesn't make sense, how there's no evidence for it and then the response it "You just made that up, it's a strawman!!"

This is the same poster who says Oswald was impersonated in Mexico City and then Hoover, who knew about the double, blabs about it on a call to LBJ. Then they publish the call where Hoover exposes the impersonation. Right, Hoover knew who the person was, that it was part of a plan to incriminate Cuba, and then Hoover reveals the plan! He doesn't keep it quiet. But I made that all up?

[Richard Smith]

Always happens. We cite the conspiracy claims, point out the illogic of it, how it doesn't make sense, how there's no evidence for it and then the response it "You just made that up, it's a strawman!!"

This is the same poster who says Oswald was impersonated in Mexico City and then Hoover, who knew about the double, blabs about it on a call to LBJ. Then they publish the call where Hoover exposes the impersonation. Right, Hoover knew who the person was, that it was part of a plan to incriminate Cuba, and then Hoover reveals the plan! He doesn't keep it quiet. But I made that all up?

Yes, it's the old blow smoke and imply there is a fire technique.  Never pausing to explain the consequences of their own claims having validity.  Why fake Oswald's presence on the bus or in Mexico City if he was never in those places?  Think of the risk and complexity to get everyone involved to go along with these efforts including random folks on a bus or employees of the Russian and Cuban embassies.  The CTer mind has to conjure some anomaly in the case which might lend itself to suspicion but then ignore everything else that runs counter to the claim including logic, common sense, and the evidence.

[Zeon Mason]

Just want to clarify that I was NOT suggesting some conspirator got on the bus pretending to be Oswald. That certainly would be an unnecessary thing to be done by conspirators

What I was suggesting was to discard THIS PART of the WC scenario for  Oswald’s route from leaving TSBD to getting to Whaleys taxi.

Bledsoe account of seeing Oswald on the bus wearing a brown shirt with hole in the sleeve cannot be accepted as valid if Oswald was not wearing that brown shirt yet. Therefore her ID of Oswald must be doubted.

McWatters never did actually ID Oswald as the man he gave a ticket too. Therefore more reasonable  doubt that Oswald was ever on that bus.

If the premise is that Oswald’s intent after leaving TSBD as early as 12:34 was to get back to the boarding house asap, the most logical thing would be to get a taxi directly and it would cost him just a mere 90 cents of that 13 dollars he was carrying.

So for we know there was just some man who banged on the bus door, sat down for a few minutes ,  got a transfer ticket from McWatters about 12:43  , then that man left the bus and know telling where he went from there.

Bill Brown was trying to work out this time line anomaly in a more complicated way (imo) and my suggestion was to simply eliminate the bus ride account as “unconfirmed” and in doing so, Oswald going directly to the taxi  being a logical  route if his intent was to return to the boarding house ASAP would have Oswald entering Whaleys taxi as early as 12:40.

[Bill Brown]

Why would anyone fake Oswald's presence on the bus?  Think of the effort and risk to do so.  The fantasy conspirators would have to figure out which bus was in the vicinity.  Convince the passengers to either confirm Oswald's presence or at least not deny that he got on the bus.  They would have to somehow get a bus transfer from the driver.  They would then have to make sure Oswald was not in the presence of anyone else during this timeframe.  So many variables to handle on the fly in the immediate aftermath of the assassination.  And for what purpose?  The bus takes him nowhere.  He gets off and takes a cab.  It's ridiculous to suggest the bus to nowhere was the product of any conspiracy plan.  In a plan, everything has purpose.  You don't stage things to unnecessarily complicate what is already a complex and risky operation for no apparent reason.

Agreed.

For what it's worth, I talked to Roy Milton Jones last year.  For those who don't know, Jones was on the McWatters bus at the same time as Oswald.  Jones told me that he boarded the bus near Crozier Tech High School.  I asked him if he specifically remembered Oswald boarding the bus.  He said that he did not remember because it was not conspicuous.  I asked him if he remembers Oswald being on the bus.  He told me that after he saw Oswald's picture on the news, he remembered seeing Oswald on the bus.  I then asked him flat out if Oswald, in his opinion, was on the bus and he said "Yes".