From Behind the Fence

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

  You got a serious issue with getting a shot UNDER that steel support beam and then striking that chrome strip at the TOP of the car. And remember, the Limo is traveling Downhill. Personally, if you believe that the Head Explosion was the result of the AR-15, then you need to also expect severe damage to a flimsy chrome strip vs a mere Ding.

........................................From the other thread.....................................https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,3832.16.html

Stop the above youtube at 0:54.

    I'm not sure that the JFK Limo was partially traveling inside the Fast Lane vs being completely inside the Center Lane. Your video below shows the knockoff JFK Limo being entirely inside the Center Lane. Much like the SBT and the placement of Gov Connally's jump seat vs the position of JFK, you are doing likewise by moving the JFK Limo inside the Fast Lane vs SA Hickey's position inside the Queen Mary.

Yes, the problem of the AR15 is like the SBT. But, the SBT works (ie re line & angle), & the AR15 theory works (ie re line & angle).
U correctly mention that we dont know whether the jfklimo was completely inside the center lane. But this is not critical. If the jfklimo was half in the fast lane then this would only make a say 40 inch difference to the alignment of the limo center line where it meets Tague, ie the center line moves 40 inches to the left, ie a 40 inch offset, but is still parallel, ie the angle to Elm St duznt change in the 2 scenarios, ie if Queen Mary too was half in the fast lane.

Notice that in the above frame the jfklimo is say 20% in the fast lane. I forget where i got that frame. Its from one of the members here. But i painted the stars etc. It shows jfk sitting well right, but at Z312 jfk's head was lower & very near the center line of the limo (ie where the lowest star is drawn)(that star is supposed to show the inshoot)(the hollow star shows the position of the crack damage).

What duznt work is the theory that Oswald fired the headshot, ie from the sniper's nest. The angles are wrong (Donahue in Mortal Error).
And a Carcano FMJ duznt explode (Donahue in Mortal Error)(however soft point Carcano's were available)(& Oswald could have made his own Carcano hollow-point i suppose).

I cant remember whether the horizontal line & angle problem for the AR15 has been dealt with in much detail on this forum.
The vertical line & angle problem has been dealt with in this present thread & in a Bronson footage thread that i started a couple of years ago. https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2836.32.html

Donahue dealt with the vertical line & angle problem for the AR15 in Mortal Error. Not so much the horizontal line & angle problem i think.

Daniel R Roffe wrote a book......... JFK Motorcade: The Accidental Shooting Death of President John F Kennedy.
This deals mainly with the horizontal & vertical line & angle problem i think.
I could not find a used copy for sale on the internet, but would cost about $200.
And i could not find any info or drawings from the book.

As detailed in this thread, some or all of the AR15 shots had to pass throo the gap between the upturned vizors on Queen Mary.
And one or two might have had to pass throo the gap between the upturned vizors in the jfklimo.
All of the shots had to pass over the windshield of Queen Mary.
And the 2nd last shot which dented the chrome trim above the mirror in the jfklimo had to pass under the divider/roll-bar of the jfklimo. In the above frame the divider/roll-bar has been left out (because the frame originally  dealt with the SBT i suppose, it did not deal with the AR15).

And the remnant slug from the last shot, the head shot, had to veer 6 deg inside the head, & then crack the windshield.
6 deg is a big ask for a hollow point.
But it works, it has to work.
It was rotten luck, he was just doing his job.

[Della Cross]

Dan O’meara wrote:  “I believe (the Secret Service) knowingly destroyed the crime scene and the validity of any ballistic evidence found in the limo.
But this is not evidence that Hickey shot JFK with an AR-15.
And I don't understand why you would think it is evidence that Hickey fired the AR-15 and accidentally killed the President.
I'm really baffled by why you think the two things are linked.”

Dan... you recognize that the Secret Service “knowingly destroyed the crime scene and the validity of any ballistic evidence in the limo.”  But then
you fail to state why you think they would take such shocking and illegal actions, if not to cover up the accidental Hickey shot?  You then ignore
the other examples I give of the Secret Service destroying or altering evidence.  What is your explanation for why they did these things?  And why
do you keep insisting that Dino Brugioni in The Zapruder Film Mystery interview on YouTube does not describe the head shot causing  a piece of
JFK’s skull to fly into the air when he saw the Z film for the first time on the night of Saturday, Nov. 23, at the NIPC labs in Washington?  Brugioni
makes this statement several times.  He also says the Z film that was later released to the public was not the one he saw on Nov. 23.  Why do you
keep insisting the Brugioni makes no such statements, when clearly he does?       

[Dan O'meara]

The dent in the chrome is the key.
It is obvious to me (hence it is evidence to me) that a hollowpoint slug from the AR15 made it.
Fragments could not make that dent (dent too big).
A carcarno could not make that dent (dent too small).
The slug that made the dent probly annihilated into very small splatter, alltho there might have been a largish central remnant (Hargis said that something hit his fender).

Re the cracked windshield, yes, the remnant AR15 slug at Z313 cracked the windshield (slug not found)(probly bounced into street)(Hargis said that something hit his fender).

Anyhow, what the whole jfk saga needs most today is bullet tests on similar chrome trims, to replicate that dent.
These would prove that the AR15 made that dent.
Then it would be evidence to u.
But, it is already evidence to me, koz i am smarter.
And, much of what u have said is evidence to u is clearly wrong to me & is not evidence to me (talking about much of your other stuff here).

I wonder what happened to the AR15. When & how was it disposed of? Where is it today?
If i had the AR15 i would make a facsimile trophy jfk head & mount it over the AR15 over my fireplace.

Translated to behind the fence. There is no hard evidence for a sniper behind the fence.
The witness that saw smoke, the witness that saw a shooter shoot, none of that is hard evidence.
The supposed photo of smoke would be hard evidence, but it aint smoke, the supposed photo of the head of a shooter would be hard evidence, but it aint a head (& even if it were a head it would not necessarily prove that the head fired a rifle).
And all of your supposed wound evidence that there was a shot from the front or sides is complete krapp.

Anyhow, what the whole jfk saga needs most today is bullet tests on similar chrome trims, to replicate that dent.
These would prove that the AR15 made that dent.
Then it would be evidence to u.
But, it is already evidence to me, koz i am smarter.

 

As I suspected. You don't have a clue what "evidence" means. That's how smart you are.
It's evidence because you think it is??
That's probably the most stupid thing ever posted on this forum and that's up against some stiff competition.
It wouldn't be so bad but this isn't even your own half-wit theory, you're just regurgitating some nonsense you heard elsewhere.
You don't even have the brains to make up your own nonsense.

Just to reiterate - this  theory is based on ZERO EVIDENCE.
What kind of buffoon finds 'zero evidence' acceptable?

And all of your supposed wound evidence that there was a shot from the front or sides is complete krapp.

What are you talking about?
I've never posted anything supporting a shot coming from the front or sides as I don't believe there was a shot from the front or the side
You are clearly too dumb to understand what I've posted.
Mind you, if you're dumb enough to believe the 'Hickey and His Invisible Shot' theory I shouldn't be surprised.


And you've not answered the main question [yet again]:

What is your credible explanation that not a single witness reported it?

Do you have enough brains to even understand what this question means?
Is that why you don't answer it?

[Dan O'meara]

Dan O’meara wrote:  “I believe (the Secret Service) knowingly destroyed the crime scene and the validity of any ballistic evidence found in the limo.
But this is not evidence that Hickey shot JFK with an AR-15.
And I don't understand why you would think it is evidence that Hickey fired the AR-15 and accidentally killed the President.
I'm really baffled by why you think the two things are linked.”

Dan... you recognize that the Secret Service “knowingly destroyed the crime scene and the validity of any ballistic evidence in the limo.”  But then
you fail to state why you think they would take such shocking and illegal actions, if not to cover up the accidental Hickey shot?  You then ignore
the other examples I give of the Secret Service destroying or altering evidence.  What is your explanation for why they did these things? And why
do you keep insisting that Dino Brugioni in The Zapruder Film Mystery interview on YouTube does not describe the head shot causing  a piece of
JFK’s skull to fly into the air when he saw the Z film for the first time on the night of Saturday, Nov. 23, at the NIPC labs in Washington?  Brugioni
makes this statement several times.  He also says the Z film that was later released to the public was not the one he saw on Nov. 23.  Why do you
keep insisting the Brugioni makes no such statements, when clearly he does?       

Dan... you recognize that the Secret Service “knowingly destroyed the crime scene and the validity of any ballistic evidence in the limo.”  But then
you fail to state why you think they would take such shocking and illegal actions, if not to cover up the accidental Hickey shot?

It's strange.
You seem to be having exactly the same problem Marjan does understanding what "evidence" means.
You do not know why the Secret Service acted the way it did. When you say it's because they were covering up Hickey's accidental shot, you are just guessing, you don't actually know.
And you seem to believe that your guess is "evidence" that the AR-15 was fired.
They may well have been altering the ballistic evidence but we don't know for sure. And even if they were altering the ballistic evidence it still doesn't prove the AR-15 was fired.

Strong evidence that the AR-15 was fired would be eye-witness testimony from the dozens of witnesses who would have been in a position to see or hear the AR-15 being fired, but not a single witness mentions anything about it.
Don't you think this strongly indicates that the AR-15 was not fired?
Why do you think not a single witness mentions it?

And why do you keep insisting that Dino Brugioni in The Zapruder Film Mystery interview on YouTube does not describe the head shot causing  a piece of
JFK’s skull to fly into the air when he saw the Z film for the first time on the night of Saturday, Nov. 23, at the NIPC labs in Washington?

I've never said that Dino doesn't mention JFK's skull flying into the air.
I've never said that at any time, so I don't understand why you think I "keep insisting".
I know Dino mentions the skull but that's not what I'm pointing out.
You posted this:

They removed the Z film frames showing a piece of JFK's skull flying into the air (see the Zapruder Film Mystery on YouTube),

At no time does Dino mention anything about frames being removed showing pieces of skull flying into the air.
And he never mentions anything about later versions of then Z-film missing pieces of skull.
Where are you getting this idea from?
Can you pinpoint the time-mark [in minutes and seconds] in the video where Dino makes these remarks about the Z-film being altered because I can't find it.

[Royell Storing]

Dan O’meara wrote:  “I believe (the Secret Service) knowingly destroyed the crime scene and the validity of any ballistic evidence found in the limo.
But this is not evidence that Hickey shot JFK with an AR-15.
And I don't understand why you would think it is evidence that Hickey fired the AR-15 and accidentally killed the President.
I'm really baffled by why you think the two things are linked.”

Dan... you recognize that the Secret Service “knowingly destroyed the crime scene and the validity of any ballistic evidence in the limo.”  But then
you fail to state why you think they would take such shocking and illegal actions, if not to cover up the accidental Hickey shot?  You then ignore
the other examples I give of the Secret Service destroying or altering evidence.  What is your explanation for why they did these things?  And why
do you keep insisting that Dino Brugioni in The Zapruder Film Mystery interview on YouTube does not describe the head shot causing  a piece of
JFK’s skull to fly into the air when he saw the Z film for the first time on the night of Saturday, Nov. 23, at the NIPC labs in Washington?  Brugioni
makes this statement several times.  He also says the Z film that was later released to the public was not the one he saw on Nov. 23.  Why do you
keep insisting the Brugioni makes no such statements, when clearly he does?       

  The crime scene continues being Destroyed to this very day: (1) Moving of the (N) Light Poles from Elm St curb, (2) Removal of Thornton Sign, (3) Removal of Stemmons Sign, (4) Removal of Tree where the Willis girl stopped chasing the JFK Limo. (Tree frequently WAS used to position the JFK Limo for Scientific Re-Enactment Studies), (5) Removal of Fire Escape from the side of the TSBD. (Only 3 windows down from the Snipers Nest), (6) Picket Fence MOVED roughly 5 inches West, etc, etc, etc. And now there is talk of completely shutting down that entire stretch of Elm St and redesigning Dealey Plaza to include ponds. A literal "Deep Sixing" of Dealey Plaza as it appeared on 11/22/63.   

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Anyhow, what the whole jfk saga needs most today is bullet tests on similar chrome trims, to replicate that dent.
These would prove that the AR15 made that dent.
Then it would be evidence to u.
But, it is already evidence to me, koz i am smarter.

 

As I suspected. You don't have a clue what "evidence" means. That's how smart you are.
It's evidence because you think it is??
That's probably the most stupid thing ever posted on this forum and that's up against some stiff competition.
It wouldn't be so bad but this isn't even your own half-wit theory, you're just regurgitating some nonsense you heard elsewhere.
You don't even have the brains to make up your own nonsense.

Just to reiterate - this  theory is based on ZERO EVIDENCE.
What kind of buffoon finds 'zero evidence' acceptable?

And all of your supposed wound evidence that there was a shot from the front or sides is complete krapp.

What are you talking about?
I've never posted anything supporting a shot coming from the front or sides as I don't believe there was a shot from the front or the side
You are clearly too dumb to understand what I've posted.
Mind you, if you're dumb enough to believe the 'Hickey and His Invisible Shot' theory I shouldn't be surprised.


And you've not answered the main question [yet again]:

What is your credible explanation that not a single witness reported it?

Do you have enough brains to even understand what this question means?
Is that why you don't answer it?

I apologize for saying that u were in the shot from front or sides camp. I must have been drunk. I will save that for michael griffith.
The Hickey witnesses are well listed in Mortal Error ($25) & in JFK The Smoking Gun ($25). The 2 best books re the jfk saga.
Thems books do not tell us that Newman in a youtube says that an SSA in Queen Mary
was holding (what he called) a machine gun before the headshot.
I will find the link. I will be back.

[Mitch Todd]

Dan... you recognize that the Secret Service “knowingly destroyed the crime scene and the validity of any ballistic evidence in the limo.”  But then
you fail to state why you think they would take such shocking and illegal actions, if not to cover up the accidental Hickey shot?

It's strange.
You seem to be having exactly the same problem Marjan does understanding what "evidence" means.
You do not know why the Secret Service acted the way it did. When you say it's because they were covering up Hickey's accidental shot, you are just guessing, you don't actually know.
And you seem to believe that your guess is "evidence" that the AR-15 was fired.
They may well have been altering the ballistic evidence but we don't know for sure. And even if they were altering the ballistic evidence it still doesn't prove the AR-15 was fired.

Strong evidence that the AR-15 was fired would be eye-witness testimony from the dozens of witnesses who would have been in a position to see or hear the AR-15 being fired, but not a single witness mentions anything about it.
Don't you think this strongly indicates that the AR-15 was not fired?
Why do you think not a single witness mentions it?

And why do you keep insisting that Dino Brugioni in The Zapruder Film Mystery interview on YouTube does not describe the head shot causing  a piece of
JFK’s skull to fly into the air when he saw the Z film for the first time on the night of Saturday, Nov. 23, at the NIPC labs in Washington?

I've never said that Dino doesn't mention JFK's skull flying into the air.
I've never said that at any time, so I don't understand why you think I "keep insisting".
I know Dino mentions the skull but that's not what I'm pointing out.
You posted this:

They removed the Z film frames showing a piece of JFK's skull flying into the air (see the Zapruder Film Mystery on YouTube),

At no time does Dino mention anything about frames being removed showing pieces of skull flying into the air.
And he never mentions anything about later versions of then Z-film missing pieces of skull.
Where are you getting this idea from?
Can you pinpoint the time-mark [in minutes and seconds] in the video where Dino makes these remarks about the Z-film being altered because I can't find it.

It's probably worth noting that Dino was 90 years old at the time the video was originally made. That is, he was a 90-year-old man trying to remember something he saw one night 50 years before. It's an awful lot to expect him to remember correctly in detail what everything looked like that night.