From Behind the Fence

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Marjan Rynkiewicz wrote:
"... 99% of what Holland said was krapp."

I agree with you completely about Hickey, and his accidental role in the death of JFK.  But... did Holland really see a puff of gun smoke from behind the fence?  Or did he imagine it?  Why would he lie about it?  An echo from shots fired by LHO and Hickey might account for the gunshot(s) that some people heard from the grassy knoll. But the puff of smoke?  Holland says the area behind the fence was crowded with parked cars, and he and others had to crawl over bumpers and hoods to reach the fence. Those cars could have provided cover for a shooter, and for his escape.  Here we are, 60 years later, and the people who actually know what happened are still putting their country thru anguish and torment, rather than reveal the truth.

If u look at all of the pix in Dealey, & all of the footages, u will see that Holland & Co are still on the TUP many minutes after the shots.
So, Holland did not run to the fence after the shots.
Holland hizself says that there were 40 or 50 persons in the carpark when he was looking around in the carpark. So, the footprints & muddy prints etc could have been made after the shots.
Re the supposed smoke, the AR15 would have made a bit of smoke i suppose (4 or 5 shots), & it was just right of the trees from Holland's view.


https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=post;quote=142357;topic=2833.80

[Mitch Todd]

    The "lingering" was allegedly due to tree branches restricting the smoke from rising/drifting/dissipating quickly. That's the contention.

Sorry, Live Oaks don't do diddly to trap smoke or steam.

[Royell Storing]

  On that day, there is no way anything was "lingering" in Dealy Plaza.   As always, there is always a constant breeze in Dealey Plaza.   That day, wind gusts were recorded at - I believe-25 mph.  In the stabilized Zapruder film, you can clearly see the wind blowing the trees as Zapruder is filming the caar disappearing beneath the underpass.  I have always doubted that Holland saw any smoke "lingering" that day.

    You got a roughly 5 foot high fence and tree branches almost touching the top of that fence. That would provide a very good "wind break". Every watch "Naked And Afraid"? Holland said he saw smoke. You certainly can "doubt" him, but He was there and You were Not. CASE CLOSED!

[John Mytton]

    You got a roughly 5 foot high fence and tree branches almost touching the top of that fence. That would provide a very good "wind break". Every watch "Naked And Afraid"? Holland said he saw smoke. You certainly can "doubt" him, but He was there and You were Not. CASE CLOSED!

Modern rifle ammunition doesn't make a lot of smoke.

Here's Jesse Ventura firing a similar Carcano to Oswald.



Another rifle.



Maybe you think they were using Muskets?

...and tree branches almost touching the top of that fence.

Hilarious, "almost touching" doesn't create a very effective wind break, besides it was windy day.



JohnM

[John Mytton]

I have had a debate previously about rifle smoke and someone brought up the following situation, in 1966, Charles Whitman was firing from a tower and some sort of particulate matter can be seen, which is in direct contrast to my above examples! Iirc a Weapons Expert advised us that the airborne matter was most likely the dislodging of dust and cement particles from the sonic effects of the repeated firing of the weapon. I believe someone else suggested an overly oiled barrel and the high temperature of constant firing. In conclusion the "behind the fence" sniper was not affected by any of these possible scenarios.

@2:50

JohnM

[Dan O'meara]

Maybe you think they were using Muskets?




JohnM

 

[Della Cross]

 Dan O'meara wrote:  "...[unless it's something like Marjan's theory that Hickey shot JFK which has literally no evidence to support it and is just made-up nonsense]."

Dan, Thanks for your reply, and for all the information you posted.  One thing I disagree with is your statement that Marjan has no evidence to support the idea that Hickey accidentally shot JFK.  On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence from Dealey Plaza. But the most convincing evidence of all is the bizarre and illegal behavior of the Secret Service, in Dallas and during the 60 years that have followed.  Almost immediately on Nov. 22, the Secret Service began a coverup, beginning with an agent outside Parkland removing blood and tissue from the presidential limo with a bucket and sponge.  No law enforcement agency behaves that way. Blood spatter is primary evidence in a homicide. It is never disturbed, at least not until a complete set of photos has been taken.  To make things worse, neither the Secret Service nor the FBI had jurisdiction in this case.  Strange as it sounds, in 1963 there was no federal law against killing a president or anyone else.  The law that LHO broke that day was the Texas law against homicide. The State of Texas and the City of Dallas had complete jurisdiction.  No wonder the Dallas medical examiner went nuts when the Secret Service removed JFK's body from Dallas before an autopsy could be done in Texas. Ever since Nov. 22, the Secret Service has been conducting itself with "mens rea," legal Latin for "guilty mind." Right from the start, they have threatened the medical examiner, doctors, and x-ray technicians. They removed the Z film frames showing a piece of JFK's skull flying into the air (see the Zapruder Film Mystery on YouTube), and they confiscated JFK's brain and maybe his whole body. This behavior is evidence they were covering up the accidental shot(s) that Hickey fired on Nov. 22. Worst of all, the Secret Service protected itself first, inflicting terrible trauma on the nation they supposedly serve. And they're still doing it 60 years later.