Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: From Behind the Fence  (Read 28102 times)

Offline Royell Storing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2770
Re: From Behind the Fence
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2023, 11:23:26 PM »
Advertisement
  On that day, there is no way anything was "lingering" in Dealy Plaza.   As always, there is always a constant breeze in Dealey Plaza.   That day, wind gusts were recorded at - I believe-25 mph.  In the stabilized Zapruder film, you can clearly see the wind blowing the trees as Zapruder is filming the caar disappearing beneath the underpass.  I have always doubted that Holland saw any smoke "lingering" that day.

    You got a roughly 5 foot high fence and tree branches almost touching the top of that fence. That would provide a very good "wind break". Every watch "Naked And Afraid"? Holland said he saw smoke. You certainly can "doubt" him, but He was there and You were Not. CASE CLOSED!

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: From Behind the Fence
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2023, 11:23:26 PM »


Offline John Mytton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4277
Re: From Behind the Fence
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2023, 01:03:20 AM »
    You got a roughly 5 foot high fence and tree branches almost touching the top of that fence. That would provide a very good "wind break". Every watch "Naked And Afraid"? Holland said he saw smoke. You certainly can "doubt" him, but He was there and You were Not. CASE CLOSED!

Modern rifle ammunition doesn't make a lot of smoke.

Here's Jesse Ventura firing a similar Carcano to Oswald.



Another rifle.



Maybe you think they were using Muskets?



Quote
...and tree branches almost touching the top of that fence.

Hilarious, "almost touching" doesn't create a very effective wind break, besides it was windy day.



JohnM
« Last Edit: November 23, 2023, 01:13:01 AM by John Mytton »

Offline John Mytton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4277
Re: From Behind the Fence
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2023, 01:47:22 AM »

I have had a debate previously about rifle smoke and someone brought up the following situation, in 1966, Charles Whitman was firing from a tower and some sort of particulate matter can be seen, which is in direct contrast to my above examples! Iirc a Weapons Expert advised us that the airborne matter was most likely the dislodging of dust and cement particles from the sonic effects of the repeated firing of the weapon. I believe someone else suggested an overly oiled barrel and the high temperature of constant firing. In conclusion the "behind the fence" sniper was not affected by any of these possible scenarios.

@2:50

JohnM

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: From Behind the Fence
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2023, 01:47:22 AM »


Online Dan O'meara

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3163
Re: From Behind the Fence
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2023, 02:44:36 AM »


Maybe you think they were using Muskets?




JohnM

 :D :D :D

Offline Della Cross

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Re: From Behind the Fence
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2023, 07:37:55 AM »
 Dan O'meara wrote:  "...[unless it's something like Marjan's theory that Hickey shot JFK which has literally no evidence to support it and is just made-up nonsense]."

Dan, Thanks for your reply, and for all the information you posted.  One thing I disagree with is your statement that Marjan has no evidence to support the idea that Hickey accidentally shot JFK.  On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence from Dealey Plaza. But the most convincing evidence of all is the bizarre and illegal behavior of the Secret Service, in Dallas and during the 60 years that have followed.  Almost immediately on Nov. 22, the Secret Service began a coverup, beginning with an agent outside Parkland removing blood and tissue from the presidential limo with a bucket and sponge.  No law enforcement agency behaves that way. Blood spatter is primary evidence in a homicide. It is never disturbed, at least not until a complete set of photos has been taken.  To make things worse, neither the Secret Service nor the FBI had jurisdiction in this case.  Strange as it sounds, in 1963 there was no federal law against killing a president or anyone else.  The law that LHO broke that day was the Texas law against homicide. The State of Texas and the City of Dallas had complete jurisdiction.  No wonder the Dallas medical examiner went nuts when the Secret Service removed JFK's body from Dallas before an autopsy could be done in Texas. Ever since Nov. 22, the Secret Service has been conducting itself with "mens rea," legal Latin for "guilty mind." Right from the start, they have threatened the medical examiner, doctors, and x-ray technicians. They removed the Z film frames showing a piece of JFK's skull flying into the air (see the Zapruder Film Mystery on YouTube), and they confiscated JFK's brain and maybe his whole body. This behavior is evidence they were covering up the accidental shot(s) that Hickey fired on Nov. 22. Worst of all, the Secret Service protected itself first, inflicting terrible trauma on the nation they supposedly serve. And they're still doing it 60 years later.     

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: From Behind the Fence
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2023, 07:37:55 AM »


Online Dan O'meara

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3163
Re: From Behind the Fence
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2023, 10:17:45 AM »
Dan O'meara wrote:  "...[unless it's something like Marjan's theory that Hickey shot JFK which has literally no evidence to support it and is just made-up nonsense]."

Dan, Thanks for your reply, and for all the information you posted.  One thing I disagree with is your statement that Marjan has no evidence to support the idea that Hickey accidentally shot JFK.  On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence from Dealey Plaza. But the most convincing evidence of all is the bizarre and illegal behavior of the Secret Service, in Dallas and during the 60 years that have followed.  Almost immediately on Nov. 22, the Secret Service began a coverup, beginning with an agent outside Parkland removing blood and tissue from the presidential limo with a bucket and sponge.  No law enforcement agency behaves that way. Blood spatter is primary evidence in a homicide. It is never disturbed, at least not until a complete set of photos has been taken.  To make things worse, neither the Secret Service nor the FBI had jurisdiction in this case.  Strange as it sounds, in 1963 there was no federal law against killing a president or anyone else.  The law that LHO broke that day was the Texas law against homicide. The State of Texas and the City of Dallas had complete jurisdiction.  No wonder the Dallas medical examiner went nuts when the Secret Service removed JFK's body from Dallas before an autopsy could be done in Texas. Ever since Nov. 22, the Secret Service has been conducting itself with "mens rea," legal Latin for "guilty mind." Right from the start, they have threatened the medical examiner, doctors, and x-ray technicians. They removed the Z film frames showing a piece of JFK's skull flying into the air (see the Zapruder Film Mystery on YouTube), and they confiscated JFK's brain and maybe his whole body. This behavior is evidence they were covering up the accidental shot(s) that Hickey fired on Nov. 22. Worst of all, the Secret Service protected itself first, inflicting terrible trauma on the nation they supposedly serve. And they're still doing it 60 years later.     

But the most convincing evidence of all is the bizarre and illegal behavior of the Secret Service, in Dallas and during the 60 years that have followed

Hi Della, I couldn't agree more with you about the actions of the Secret Service. The limo should've been treated as a crime scene and the agents who interfered with it would know that. I believe they knowingly destroyed the crime scene and the validity of any ballistic evidence found in the limo.
But this is not evidence that Hickey shot JFK with an AR-15.
And I don't understand why you would think it is evidence that Hickey fired the AR-15 and accidentally killed the President.
I'm really baffled by why you think the two things are linked.
"The most convincing evidence", as you put it, is no evidence at all.
Evidence that Hickey fired the AR-15 would be an image of him doing that. Or film evidence. Or someone in the car he was in mentioning it. Or someone in the cars following his mentioning it or one of the twenty plus witnesses stood a feet away on Elm Street mentioning it.
But there is none of this.
As I said, there is not a single scrap of evidence that Hickey took the head shot.


They removed the Z film frames showing a piece of JFK's skull flying into the air (see the Zapruder Film Mystery on YouTube),

You've made this claim a number of times now and it's false.
I've watched the Zapruder Film Mystery a few times and this is not mentioned.
Doug Horne, who's focus is demonstrating that the Z-film was altered, is interviewing a man who examined the original film in extreme detail.
It is notable that Horne does not ask Dino a single question about alteration [as that is the whole point of this video - Horne using Dino to support the notion that the Z-film was altered]. What happens is really cowardly in my opinion. Horne is interviewing Dino, who never mentions anything even remotely connected to film alteration, and it keeps cutting back to Horne on his own who "interprets" what Dino is saying. It's despicable, really. About half an hour in it cuts to a fraction of another interview between Dino and Peter Janney. Janney is showing Dino a single frame from the Z-film and telling him that this is the only frame that shows JFK's head exploding in the modern version of the Z-film. Dino can't believe it, he says there were definitely more frames showing the "pink mist" of  that surrounds JFK's head at the moment of impact. Horne then uses this to imply that Dino is saying the version of the Z-film he worked with is different from the modern version. It's just unbelievably underhand because Janney is lying to Dino when he says the single frame is the only frame showing the head exploding and the pink mist emerging from JFK's head. Dino is right, there are more frames showing this.



The Z-film is not altered. There is no evidence for alteration. The report by Roland Zavada establishes the authenticity of the Z-film and that it is unaltered.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2023, 10:22:28 AM by Dan O'meara »

Offline Marjan Rynkiewicz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 910
Re: From Behind the Fence
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2023, 01:14:13 PM »
I have had a debate previously about rifle smoke and someone brought up the following situation, in 1966, Charles Whitman was firing from a tower and some sort of particulate matter can be seen, which is in direct contrast to my above examples! Iirc a Weapons Expert advised us that the airborne matter was most likely the dislodging of dust and cement particles from the sonic effects of the repeated firing of the weapon. I believe someone else suggested an overly oiled barrel and the high temperature of constant firing. In conclusion the "behind the fence" sniper was not affected by any of these possible scenarios.

@2:50

JohnM
The tree branch leaves would be covered in dust from the gravel carpark.
Some time ago i said that Hickey's auto burst might have shaken the dust off, what with the direct blast & the echo off the fence, albeit from a long way away.
A shot from on the fence would be more likely to shake dust off, except that a shot from the fence was an impossibility.

Offline Marjan Rynkiewicz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 910
Re: From Behind the Fence
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2023, 01:19:42 PM »
Dan O'meara wrote:  "...[unless it's something like Marjan's theory that Hickey shot JFK which has literally no evidence to support it and is just made-up nonsense]."

Dan, Thanks for your reply, and for all the information you posted.  One thing I disagree with is your statement that Marjan has no evidence to support the idea that Hickey accidentally shot JFK.  On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence from Dealey Plaza. But the most convincing evidence of all is the bizarre and illegal behavior of the Secret Service, in Dallas and during the 60 years that have followed.  Almost immediately on Nov. 22, the Secret Service began a coverup, beginning with an agent outside Parkland removing blood and tissue from the presidential limo with a bucket and sponge.  No law enforcement agency behaves that way. Blood spatter is primary evidence in a homicide. It is never disturbed, at least not until a complete set of photos has been taken.  To make things worse, neither the Secret Service nor the FBI had jurisdiction in this case.  Strange as it sounds, in 1963 there was no federal law against killing a president or anyone else.  The law that LHO broke that day was the Texas law against homicide. The State of Texas and the City of Dallas had complete jurisdiction.  No wonder the Dallas medical examiner went nuts when the Secret Service removed JFK's body from Dallas before an autopsy could be done in Texas. Ever since Nov. 22, the Secret Service has been conducting itself with "mens rea," legal Latin for "guilty mind." Right from the start, they have threatened the medical examiner, doctors, and x-ray technicians. They removed the Z film frames showing a piece of JFK's skull flying into the air (see the Zapruder Film Mystery on YouTube), and they confiscated JFK's brain and maybe his whole body. This behavior is evidence they were covering up the accidental shot(s) that Hickey fired on Nov. 22. Worst of all, the Secret Service protected itself first, inflicting terrible trauma on the nation they supposedly serve. And they're still doing it 60 years later.     
Dont forget the dent in the chrome trim.
Dont forget that the AR15 was placed into service in that morning, & taken out of service for ever in the afternoon. Why?

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: From Behind the Fence
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2023, 01:19:42 PM »