JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
Bullet mark on the manhole south side of Elm St.
Marjan Rynkiewicz:
Me myself i have discovered the truth re every shot in Dealey Plaza, & re one pseudo shot, & i have described all of the movements (timings) of Oswald & Co, & all of this is available in my threads in this forum.
This week i noticed that there has not been a dedicated thread re the possible bullet mark on the manhole on the south side of Elm St.
There has been lots of discussion on various threads re the actions of Foster & Walthers & Co re the manhole & the grass area nearbye.
I will copy some of that stuff into this thread.
Plus i will add new stuff, from the internet.
For starters, it appears to me that no-one has yet mentioned that
Brehm (a gawker) alerted Officer Foster & Officer Walthers
that bullet(s) had struck Elm St (tarmac & or kerb & or grass).
Hence Foster & Walthers searched that area, including the area around the manhole. During which Tague approached Walthers, etc etc.
Foster never saw a bullet hit the manhole. Foster never said that he saw such a bullet.
Foster never saw a bullet hit the grass near the manhole. Foster never said that he saw such a bullet.
I might find sources for this info. And other stuff. I will be back.
Marjan Rynkiewicz:
............................. From another thread............... quote author Dan O'meara........
"The WC didn't really have a clue about which bullet missed.
It is more likely it was the third shot that missed.
Whatever the case, be it first, second or third shot, it missed by a really wide margin.
It is felt by many that the missed shot struck a concrete manhole cover before ricocheting towards Tague.
The Allen pic below gives an idea how much the shot missed by. The red circle marks the area of the manhole cover the bullet is thought to have struck:"
I replied to Dan O'meara that............
None of Oswald's 2 shots went anywhere near that manhole. Hickey's 4 or 5 shots went north of the manhole by say 13 ft. No shot hit near the manhole.
Dan O'meara replied that..........
You know nothing about it.
I replied that........
Was there any evidence? A mark on the concrete perhaps?
Dan O'meara replied that..........
Yes, there was a mark on the concrete. And a police officer witnessed it. But you know nothing about it. Not a clue.
I replied that.............
I have a good BS meter. So, a few years ago when i was looking closely at things, i would have realized that the mark on the manhole was BS, & the police witness was BS.
The mark on the kerb near Tague had some merit. But it too might have been irrelevant, ie made by a car wheel.
But if the mark on the manhole fitted Oswald's 2 shots (it duznt), or if it fitted Hickey's shots (it duznt), then i would have spent more time on it. Life is short.
Anyhow, a mark has size & shape & direction & other things. Fill me in, i am all ears.
I replied that.............
Dan O'meara wont answer my question, so i will answer it.
No one saw a bullet hit that manhole. They did see a bullet hit Elm St (tarmac & kerb).
No one saw a bullet hit the grass near that manhole. They did see a bullet hit the grass on south side of Elm St.
Foster found a fresh mark on the south west corner of that manhole, he called it a bullet mark.
The mark was a long deep graze, parallel to Elm St.
The mark aimed about 10 ft north of Tague, & about 50 ft south of the intersection of Houston & Elm (about 80 ft south of the middle of the intersection).
The mark was imo not from a bullet (too deep)(alignment made no sense).
Re alignment, this would be from the records building, & passes low down throo trees & concrete. Or, it comes from the peristyle itself, in Houston. Or, it comes from the TUP.
Michael Griffith writes............
..............Researchers have noted that the photo of the mark indicates it did NOT come from the TSBD. The mark can be seen on the twelfth photo page in the second set of photographs in Harrison Livingstone and Robert Groden's book HIGH TREASON. One can readily see that the angle of the mark does not line up with the Book Depository, but that it does line up with the County Records Building. It might be worth recalling that a 30.06 rifle shell casing was later found on the roof of the County Records Building.
Dan O'meara:
--- Quote from: Marjan Rynkiewicz on November 10, 2023, 09:52:21 PM ---............................. From another thread............... quote author Dan O'meara........
The WC didn't really have a clue about which bullet missed.
It is more likely it was the third shot that missed.
Whatever the case, be it first, second or third shot, it missed by a really wide margin.
It is felt by many that the missed shot struck a concrete manhole cover before ricocheting towards Tague.
The Allen pic below gives an idea how much the shot missed by. The red circle marks the area of the manhole cover the bullet is thought to have struck:
I replied to Dan O'meara that............
None of Oswald's 2 shots went anywhere near that manhole. Hickey's 4 or 5 shots went north of the manhole by say 13 ft. No shot hit near the manhole.
Dan O'meara replied that..........
You know nothing about it.
I replied that........
Was there any evidence? A mark on the concrete perhaps?
Dan O'meara replied that..........
Yes, there was a mark on the concrete. And a police officer witnessed it. But you know nothing about it. Not a clue.
I replied that.............
I have a good BS meter. So, a few years ago when i was looking closely at things, i would have realized that the mark on the manhole was BS, & the police witness was BS.
The mark on the kerb near Tague had some merit. But it too might have been irrelevant, ie made by a car wheel.
But if the mark on the manhole fitted Oswald's 2 shots (it duznt), or if it fitted Hickey's shots (it duznt), then i would have spent more time on it. Life is short.
Anyhow, a mark has size & shape & direction & other things. Fill me in, i am all ears.
I replied that.............
Dan O'meara wont answer my question, so i will answer it.
No one saw a bullet hit that manhole. They did see a bullet hit Elm St (tarmac & kerb).
No one saw a bullet hit the grass near that manhole. They did see a bullet hit the grass on south side of Elm St.
Foster found a fresh mark on the south west corner of that manhole, he called it a bullet mark.
The mark was a long deep graze, parallel to Elm St.
The mark aimed about 10 ft north of Tague, & about 50 ft south of the intersection of Houston & Elm (about 80 ft south of the middle of the intersection).
The mark was imo not from a bullet (too deep)(alignment made no sense).
Re alignment, this would be from the records building, & passes low down throo trees & concrete. Or, it comes from the peristyle itself, in Houston. Or, it comes from the TUP.
Michael Griffith writes............
..............Researchers have noted that the photo of the mark indicates it did NOT come from the TSBD. The mark can be seen on the twelfth photo page in the second set of photographs in Harrison Livingstone and Robert Groden's book HIGH TREASON. One can readily see that the angle of the mark does not line up with the Book Depository, but that it does line up with the County Records Building. It might be worth recalling that a 30.06 rifle shell casing was later found on the roof of the County Records Building.
--- End quote ---
Dan O'meara wont answer my question,
What was the question?
I'm not aware of you asking me a question.
Marjan Rynkiewicz:
--- Quote from: Dan O'meara on November 10, 2023, 10:18:30 PM ---Dan O'meara wont answer my question,
What was the question?
I'm not aware of you asking me a question.
--- End quote ---
My question was........... Anyhow, a mark has size & shape & direction & other things. Fill me in, i am all ears.
Since then i searched the forums, & googled, & i found stuff re size & shape & direction.
EXTRA BULLETS AND MISSED SHOTS IN DEALEY PLAZA
Michael T. Griffith 1996 @All Rights Reserved Revised on 3/4/98
https://michaelgriffith1.tripod.com/extras.htm
Griffith says...........
Dallas policeman J. W. Foster, who was positioned on top of the triple underpass, saw a bullet strike the grass on the south side of Elm Street near a manhole cover, about 350 feet from the TSBD. He reported this to a superior officer and was instructed to guard the area (Shaw and Harris 72-75; Marrs 315).
Shaw & Harris are wrong. Foster saw jfk get hit in the head, but Foster did not see any other bullet hit any other thing.
Marjan Rynkiewicz:
The Complete Unraveling of the JFK Assassination: A Lost Bullet's Deadly Trail
By Brian T. Kelleher 2014 (see Chapter 13 page 197).
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=2vfVBQAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_atb&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
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