Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?

[Martin Weidmann]

Let's give Bill Brown something to think about during his trip;

Instead of presenting questionable interpretations of what Scoggins and Benavides are supposed to have said, as Brown has done, why not simply go to the main source, the one who was there and knows exactly what happened; Callaway himself.

On 02/25/64 Callaway was interviewed by FBI agent Arthur Carter. In his FD 302 report he writes:

.......he [Callaway] observed that TIPPIT had been shot in the temple. He said TIPPIT was lying on his pistol and he, CALLAWAY, took the pistol and put it on the hood of TiPPIT's patrol car. Then he got in the patrol car and used the police radio to contact the Dallas Police Department, who advised they were aware that the police officer [TIPPIT] had been shot. He said the dispatcher told him to get off the air. About that time an ambulance came up and CALLAWAY said he and an unidentified citizen helped the ambulance driver put the officer (TIPPIT) in the ambulance.

On 03/26/64 Callaway testified before the Warren Commission and said;

Mr. BALL. When you got there what did you see?
Mr. CALLAWAY. I saw a squad car, and by that time there was four or five people that had gathered, a couple of cars had stopped. Then I saw--I went on up to the squad car and saw the police officer lying in the street. I see he had been shot in the head. So the first thing I did, I ran over to the squad car. I didn't know whether anybody reported it or not. So I got on the police radio and called them, and told them a man had been shot, told them the location, I thought the officer was dead. They said we know about it, stay off the air, so I went back.
By this time an ambulance was coming. The officer was laying on his left side, his pistol was underneath him. I kind of rolled him over and took his gun out from under him. The people wonder whether he ever got his pistol out of his holster. He did.

The two statements are practically identical!

In the past Bill Brown has claimed that Callaway had misremembered during his WC testimony. In other words; the classic "he was mistaken" claim, but he never explained why Callaway was mistaken on this one particular point, not once but twice. Let's see what explanation Bill can come up with now.....

[Bill Brown]

Let's give Bill Brown something to think about during his trip;

Instead of presenting questionable interpretations of what Scoggins and Benavides are supposed to have said, as Brown has done, why not simply go to the main source, the one who was there and knows exactly what happened; Callaway himself.

On 02/25/64 Callaway was interviewed by FBI agent Arthur Carter. In his FD 302 report he writes:

.......he [Callaway] observed that TIPPIT had been shot in the temple. He said TIPPIT was lying on his pistol and he, CALLAWAY, took the pistol and put it on the hood of TiPPIT's patrol car. Then he got in the patrol car and used the police radio to contact the Dallas Police Department, who advised they were aware that the police officer [TIPPIT] had been shot. He said the dispatcher told him to get off the air. About that time an ambulance came up and CALLAWAY said he and an unidentified citizen helped the ambulance driver put the officer (TIPPIT) in the ambulance.

On 03/26/64 Callaway testified before the Warren Commission and said;

Mr. BALL. When you got there what did you see?
Mr. CALLAWAY. I saw a squad car, and by that time there was four or five people that had gathered, a couple of cars had stopped. Then I saw--I went on up to the squad car and saw the police officer lying in the street. I see he had been shot in the head. So the first thing I did, I ran over to the squad car. I didn't know whether anybody reported it or not. So I got on the police radio and called them, and told them a man had been shot, told them the location, I thought the officer was dead. They said we know about it, stay off the air, so I went back.
By this time an ambulance was coming. The officer was laying on his left side, his pistol was underneath him. I kind of rolled him over and took his gun out from under him. The people wonder whether he ever got his pistol out of his holster. He did.

The two statements are practically identical!

In the past Bill Brown has claimed that Callaway had misremembered during his WC testimony. In other words; the classic "he was mistaken" claim, but he never explained why Callaway was mistaken on this one particular point, not once but twice. Let's see what explanation Bill can come up with now.....

I most certainly have explained how we know that Callaway was incorrectly recounting the proper order of events.

The police tapes clearly tell you that 602 (the Kinsley/Butler ambulance) was leaving the scene at the same time you hear Callaway making his report to the police dispatcher.

Scoggins and Benavides confirm what the police tapes tell you.

[Martin Weidmann]

I most certainly have explained how we know that Callaway was incorrectly recounting the proper order of events.

The police tapes clearly tell you that 602 (the Kinsley/Butler ambulance) was leaving the scene at the same time you hear Callaway making his report to the police dispatcher.

Scroggins and Benavides confirm what the police tapes tell you.

Except we don't know that Callaway was "incorrectly recounting the proper order of events". All we know is that you want us to believe that because it's your incorrect opinion, based on a highly questionable interpretation of what two extremely vague witness statements mean.

It's a hell of a way to deal with evidence. Just say the man who was there was mistaken (not once but twice, and only on this point) because your biased interpretation of what Scoggins said is what you foolishly want to believe!

But let me ask you this; how long do you think it took between the ambulance's arrival and departure from the scene? Is it 10 seconds, 30 seconds, one minute...?

[Jake Maxwell]

I don’t know the details of the police tapes... but could Callaway have spoken with the dispatcher twice... once before loading Tippit... and the second time as the ambulance was leaving the scene?
And Callaway is so specific... “the first thing I did”...
Would there be any motivation for getting his timeline so wrong?

[Bill Brown]

But let me ask you this; how long do you think it took between the ambulance's arrival and departure from the scene? Is it 10 seconds, 30 seconds, one minute...?

Barely over a minute.  Like literally 62 to 65 seconds.

[Martin Weidmann]

Barely over a minute.  Like literally 62 to 65 seconds.

Great, that seems a fair estimate.

Earlier in this thread you said;

The police tapes clearly tell you that 602 (the Kinsley/Butler ambulance) was leaving the scene at the same time you hear Callaway making his report to the police dispatcher.

So, to avoid any kind of misunderstanding, let's look at the transcript that used to be on the McAdams website.

Below is a parcial reproduction concerning the relevant period of that transcript. Sorry about the mess, but I couldn't get them to line up properly.

Dispatcher                                                603 and 602. 1:19.
602 (ambulance)                                What was that address on Jefferson?
Dispatcher                                                501 East Tenth.
85 (Ptm. R.W. Walker)                        85 en route.
19 (Sgt. C.B. Owens)                                19.
Dispatcher                                                19.
19                                                        Give me the correct address on the shooting.
Dispatcher                                                501 East Tenth.
105 (Ptm. J.M. Poe and Ptm. L.E. Joz)        105.
602 (ambulance)                             602, Code 6.
102 (Ptm. B.L. Jones and Ptm. M.D. Noll)  102, Code 4.
105 (Ptm. J.M. Poe and Ptm. L.E. Joz)        Was 519 E. Jefferson correct? (Siren)
Dispatcher   We have two locations;            501 East Jefferson and 501 East Tenth.
Dispatcher                                                19, are you en route?
105 (Ptm. J.M Poe and Ptm. L.E. Joz)        Is this an officer?
                                                        This is northward on Tenth.
19 (Sgt. C.B. Owens)                                10-4.
                                                        10-4.
                                                        10 . . .4.
                                                        10-4.
                                                         . . . on Tenth.
19                                                        19 is en route.
Dispatcher                                             10-4, 19.
605 (ambulance)                                605, Code 5.
Dispatcher   10-4,                                     605. 1:19.
Dispatcher                                                85.
602 (ambulance)                           602.
Dispatcher                                                85.
85 (Ptm. R.W. Walker)                        85.
Dispatcher                                                Suspect running west on Jefferson from the location.
85 (Ptm. R.W. Walker)                        10-4.
Dispatcher                                                No physical description.
Citizen                                                Hello, hello, hello.
602 (ambulance)                           602.
Citizen                                          Pardon, from out here on Tenth Street, 500 block. This officer just shot. I think he's dead.
Dispatcher   10-4.                                We have that information. The citizen using the radio: Remain off the radio now.

Based on what you said previously, am I right in assuming that it is your position that from the moment ambulance 6 called Code 6 (arrival at scene) [marked in bold] until the first time ambulance 6 tried to get the dispatcher's attention by calling "602" [also marked in bold] roughly one minute had gone by? Is that correct?

[Bill Brown]

I'm already beginning to grow bored with this.  I'm sure pretty much everyone else is, too.  Other than quote the relevant portion of Callaway's testimony, you haven't put anything out there.  Again, if you have a point to make, then make it.

Later tonight, I'll post a final summation.  You can do whatever you like.

Then, it'll be left for others to decide, if they feel so inclined.