Colors of Blue and Gold

[Martin Weidmann]

What else is he going to say?  That he and Biden made a terrible mistake and have no clue what to do?  They are at the mercy of Putin to determine how long the war continues and have no plan or policy other than to wait it out?  Putin must pinch himself when he sees the weak Biden clown show.   Old Joe falling and rolling around on the ground.  The Russians must laugh themselves silly.

Putin hiding in secret locations, not travelling on planes and moving around in trains is pretty comical. That's one hell of a "world leader".

That he and Biden made a terrible mistake

What mistake would that be?

They are at the mercy of Putin to determine how long the war continues

You may have a point there. It still might take a while or a few more drone attacks, to make him see he's at a dead end with no way to win this war.

He's getting more desperate by the day.

[Martin Weidmann]

Too bad then that "Europe" has checked out.  The kind of "help" Ukraine needs is a path to end the war.  Not continue it indefinitely with no clear plan or policy.

You really need to stop this misinformation BS. Europe is backing Ukraine all the way. Ukraine is in no position to end the war, or would you have them march on Moscow?
Ukraine will have won this war by kicking Putin out of their country and that will subsequently be the end of Putin as well.

You just want them to surrender to Russia (regardless of the consequences) so that the US can save a few dollars. It's sick and pathetic.

[Richard Smith]

You really need to stop this misinformation BS. Europe is backing Ukraine all the way. Ukraine is in no position to end the war, or would you have them march on Moscow?
Ukraine will have won this war by kicking Putin out of their country and that will subsequently be the end of Putin as well.

You just want them to surrender to Russia (regardless of the consequences) so that the US can save a few dollars. It's sick and pathetic.

Martin has learned something!  I couldn't say it better.  Ukraine has no ability to end the war.  There is no policy or plan that the US and Ukraine force a victory over the enemy as we did in WWII.  It is exactly the situation presented in Vietnam and Afghanistan.  Just fight on and on and on hoping that one day the enemy tires and calls it off.  That is not a strategy.  Do you think the people in the disputed regions, many of whom are ethnic Russians, would prefer to die and have their homes destroyed vs a settlement with Russia that ended the war?  How do you know what they prefer?  The fighting in these regions preceded the invasion.  It is a regional conflict that has gone on for years and will continue for years.   How long does the US bankroll this war?  Five years?  Ten? Twenty?  What is the end point?

[Martin Weidmann]

Martin has learned something!  I couldn't say it better.  Ukraine has no ability to end the war.  There is no policy or plan that the US and Ukraine force a victory over the enemy as we did in WWII.  It is exactly the situation presented in Vietnam and Afghanistan.  Just fight on and on and on hoping that one day the enemy tires and calls it off.  That is not a strategy.  Do you think the people in the disputed regions, many of whom are ethnic Russians, would prefer to die and have their homes destroyed vs a settlement with Russia that ended the war?  How do you know what they prefer?  The fighting in these regions preceded the invasion.  It is a regional conflict that has gone on for years and will continue for years.   How long does the US bankroll this war?  Five years?  Ten? Twenty?  What is the end point?

Ukraine has no ability to end the war.

Not what I said.

The fighting in these regions preceded the invasion.

Actually, the desperate need of Russia to hang on to a major harbor for their Southern fleet and their invasion of Crimea combined with the lack of any substantive response from the West preceded the invasion.

It is a regional conflict that has gone on for years and will continue for years.   How long does the US bankroll this war?

First of all, they only bankroll part of it and secondly, would you rather they leave the people of Ukraine (who did not want or start this war) to their own devices, with most likely many thousands of them dying to save a few dollars? Compared with what the US spends on their military every year, what they give Ukraine is an insignificant amount, but you would still rather have people die for the sake of not spending that money. Is that really who you are?

[Rick Plant]

Ukraine says it downed 36 Russian missiles and drones
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/air-raid-alerts-declared-across-all-ukraine-kyiv-reports-attacks-2023-06-02/

[Jon Banks]

At the end of the day, the biggest losers in this war are the Ukrainians...

Agreed. Which is exactly why they have to get all the help the need.

The problem remains that it’s still unlikely that Ukraine wins the war despite all the help they’ve been given.

If a year from now, Russia still occupies 1/5 of Ukraine, what should Ukraine’s backers like the US do? Double-down, escalate, or de-escalate?

[Martin Weidmann]

The problem remains that it’s still unlikely that Ukraine wins the war despite all the help they’ve been given.

If a year from now, Russia still occupies 1/5 of Ukraine, what should Ukraine’s backers like the US do? Double-down, escalate, or de-escalate?

The problem remains that it’s still unlikely that Ukraine wins the war despite all the help they’ve been given.

When they force the Russians out of their country, they'll have won the war. With all the new equipment they have been getting and the desperate state of the Russia army it is most certainly possible to send Putin packing.

If a year from now, Russia still occupies 1/5 of Ukraine, what should Ukraine’s backers like the US do? Double-down, escalate, or de-escalate?

Russia won't occupy 1/5 of Ukraine, but just in case they somehow manage to do so, what would you prefer Ukraine's backers do; continue to support their efforts or withdraw all funding and leave Ukraine to it's own devices so that Putin can kill even more civilians than he has already done?

You seem to be arguing that Ukraine should just give up a part of their country and award Putin for his aggression and many war crimes. Do you think rewarding aggressors is a good thing?