Truly's False Roll

[Dan O'meara]

That’s the general idea that makes sense to me. But I am reasonably sure that you are planning to spring some conflicting account(s). Do you agree with this assessment (ESP)?

 
You're starting to make me believe in ESP.

The trap that I'm about to spring involves Eddie Piper and his testimony that he saw Oswald around 12:00 as he was heading for his lunch.
How does Oswald get down to the first floor to interact with Piper in the scenario you are proposing?

[Charles Collins]

You're starting to make me believe in ESP.

The trap that I'm about to spring involves Eddie Piper and his testimony that he saw Oswald around 12:00 as he was heading for his lunch.
How does Oswald get down to the first floor to interact with Piper in the scenario you are proposing?

Is this the account that you are referencing?


SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT
COUNTY OF DALLAS

Before me, the undersigned authority, on this the 23rd day of November A.D. 1963 personally appeared Eddie Piper. Address 3402 Munger Avenue, Dallas. Age 55, Phone No. TA 1 2190 Wks: Janitor - Texas School Bk Dep.

Deposes and Says:

I have been employed as janitor for the Texas School book Depository for a little over 4 years. I do the packing of the books as well as lock up at night. I came to work yesterday about 10:00 AM and I worked until 2:00 PM. There has been a man that I know only as "Lee" who has been working there about 5 weeks. He fills the orders and I pack the orders. Yesterday at about 12:00 Noon, this fello Lee says to me, "I'm going up to eat" and I went on to my lunch. I went to the front window on the first floor and ate my lunch and waited to see the President's parade go by. I saw the President pass and heard some shots and looked at the clock there and saw it was 12:55PM. The shots seemed to me like they came from up inside the building. It was about 1:00 PM when the police made us vacate the building and as we were being checked out, I noticed that "Lee" wasn't with us and I mentioned to some of the employees there checking out that Lee wasn't there and somebody said, he must have already gone out. This man Lee has never talked much to anyone and hardly said anything to me. He kept pretty much to himself and hardly even answer when I would say "Goodmorning".

/s/Eddie Piper

Subscribed and sworn to before me on this th 23rd day of November A.D. 1963

/s/Rosemarry Allen
Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas


When I see how far off from reality that the other times of day that Eddie Piper came up with are, I have absolutely no confidence in the time of day that he said he saw LHO “going up to eat”.

But, unless my ESP is failing me, I am positive that you have your own interpretation that you are going to use to try to show that Eddie Piper was correct.

[Dan O'meara]

Is this the account that you are referencing?


SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT
COUNTY OF DALLAS

Before me, the undersigned authority, on this the 23rd day of November A.D. 1963 personally appeared Eddie Piper. Address 3402 Munger Avenue, Dallas. Age 55, Phone No. TA 1 2190 Wks: Janitor - Texas School Bk Dep.

Deposes and Says:

I have been employed as janitor for the Texas School book Depository for a little over 4 years. I do the packing of the books as well as lock up at night. I came to work yesterday about 10:00 AM and I worked until 2:00 PM. There has been a man that I know only as "Lee" who has been working there about 5 weeks. He fills the orders and I pack the orders. Yesterday at about 12:00 Noon, this fello Lee says to me, "I'm going up to eat" and I went on to my lunch. I went to the front window on the first floor and ate my lunch and waited to see the President's parade go by. I saw the President pass and heard some shots and looked at the clock there and saw it was 12:55PM. The shots seemed to me like they came from up inside the building. It was about 1:00 PM when the police made us vacate the building and as we were being checked out, I noticed that "Lee" wasn't with us and I mentioned to some of the employees there checking out that Lee wasn't there and somebody said, he must have already gone out. This man Lee has never talked much to anyone and hardly said anything to me. He kept pretty much to himself and hardly even answer when I would say "Goodmorning".

/s/Eddie Piper

Subscribed and sworn to before me on this th 23rd day of November A.D. 1963

/s/Rosemarry Allen
Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas


When I see how far off from reality that the other times of day that Eddie Piper came up with are, I have absolutely no confidence in the time of day that he said he saw LHO “going up to eat”.

But, unless my ESP is failing me, I am positive that you have your own interpretation that you are going to use to try to show that Eddie Piper was correct.

Piper is consistent about the time he saw Oswald. From his WC testimony:

Mr. BALL. What time was it that you spoke to Oswald and said you thought you would have your lunch?
Mr. PIPER. Just about 12 o'clock.

Lunch was from 12:00 to 12:45pm so it makes sense it was around this time.
Piper takes his lunch around 12:00pm so he can be fairly confident about the time.

James Jarman makes this point in his affidavit on the 23rd:

"The last time I saw Lee Oswald on Friday, November 22, 1963 was between 11:30 a.m. and 12:00 noon when he was taking the elevator upstairs to go get some boxes. At about 11:45 a.m. all of the employees who were working on the 6th floor came downstairs and we were all out on the street at about 12:00 o'clock noon"

As Oswald was seen/heard by the men coming down from the 6th floor he must have went up there sometime between 11:30 and 11:45pm. At least fifteen minutes before Piper goes for lunch.
The problem is, if Oswald has come back down to the first floor around 12:00pm then he's not up there when Givens says he is and there's no way he can sneak past Williams having his lunch to hide in the SN.

[Jerry Freeman]

[Charles Collins]

Piper is consistent about the time he saw Oswald. From his WC testimony:

Mr. BALL. What time was it that you spoke to Oswald and said you thought you would have your lunch?
Mr. PIPER. Just about 12 o'clock.

Lunch was from 12:00 to 12:45pm so it makes sense it was around this time.
Piper takes his lunch around 12:00pm so he can be fairly confident about the time.

James Jarman makes this point in his affidavit on the 23rd:

"The last time I saw Lee Oswald on Friday, November 22, 1963 was between 11:30 a.m. and 12:00 noon when he was taking the elevator upstairs to go get some boxes. At about 11:45 a.m. all of the employees who were working on the 6th floor came downstairs and we were all out on the street at about 12:00 o'clock noon"

As Oswald was seen/heard by the men coming down from the 6th floor he must have went up there sometime between 11:30 and 11:45pm. At least fifteen minutes before Piper goes for lunch.
The problem is, if Oswald has come back down to the first floor around 12:00pm then he's not up there when Givens says he is and there's no way he can sneak past Williams having his lunch to hide in the SN.

What it boils down to is whether or not to believe that Piper was correct with the 12 noon time.

Reasons to doubt:

1. Other employees have stated that they normally break for lunch about 10-minutes or so before noon to wash up, etc. And that on 11/22/63 they broke a little earlier than normal because of the motorcade.

2. Piper also said that when he heard the shots he looked at the clock and it was 12:55 pm.   

3. Piper also said that it was about 1:00 pm when the police made them vacate the building.   

4. Jarman said that LHO went up between 11:30 and 12:00.


Your reasons to believe:

1. Lunch was from 12:00 to 12:45pm so it makes sense it was around this time. [Do you really think that Piper normally continued to work on his own while the other employees normally broke for lunch about 10-minutes before noon (and a little earlier than normal on this date?]   

2. Piper takes his lunch around 12:00pm so he can be fairly confident about the time. [ this is redundant, so see my comment on #1]


As Oswald was seen/heard by the men coming down from the 6th floor he must have went up there sometime between 11:30 and 11:45pm. At least fifteen minutes before Piper goes for lunch.
The problem is, if Oswald has come back down to the first floor around 12:00pm then he's not up there when Givens says he is and there's no way he can sneak past Williams having his lunch to hide in the SN.


You are assuming that Piper didn't typically break for lunch when the others normally did. There is simply no evidence that supports your assumption.

[Dan O'meara]

What it boils down to is whether or not to believe that Piper was correct with the 12 noon time.

Reasons to doubt:

1. Other employees have stated that they normally break for lunch about 10-minutes or so before noon to wash up, etc. And that on 11/22/63 they broke a little earlier than normal because of the motorcade.

2. Piper also said that when he heard the shots he looked at the clock and it was 12:55 pm.   

3. Piper also said that it was about 1:00 pm when the police made them vacate the building.   

4. Jarman said that LHO went up between 11:30 and 12:00.


Your reasons to believe:

1. Lunch was from 12:00 to 12:45pm so it makes sense it was around this time. [Do you really think that Piper normally continued to work on his own while the other employees normally broke for lunch about 10-minutes before noon (and a little earlier than normal on this date?]   

2. Piper takes his lunch around 12:00pm so he can be fairly confident about the time. [ this is redundant, so see my comment on #1]


As Oswald was seen/heard by the men coming down from the 6th floor he must have went up there sometime between 11:30 and 11:45pm. At least fifteen minutes before Piper goes for lunch.
The problem is, if Oswald has come back down to the first floor around 12:00pm then he's not up there when Givens says he is and there's no way he can sneak past Williams having his lunch to hide in the SN.


You are assuming that Piper didn't typically break for lunch when the others normally did. There is simply no evidence that supports your assumption.

The 6th floor crew broke about 11:45-11:50pm. Not every worker did:

Mr. Ball: What time did you quit for lunch?
Mr. Jarman: It was right about 5 minutes to 12.

Mr. Belin: When did you quit for lunch that day?
Mr. West: Well, we always quit at 12 o'clock in the day.

Mr. Ball: What time do you usually go to lunch?
Mr. Dougherty: Well, usually about 12 o'clock or 12 noon.

The 6th floor crew were given permission by Shelley to break early. Piper didn't have such permission and broke at 12 which is when he saw Oswald. He remembers because they were specifically talking about breaking for lunch:

Mr. Ball: Was that the last time you saw him?
Mr. Piper: Just at 12 o'clock.
Mr. Ball: Where were you at 12 o'clock?
Mr. Piper: Down on the first floor.
Mr. Ball: What was he doing?
Mr. PIPER. Well, I said to him---"It's about lunch time.

"It's about lunch time", that is to say, "It's about 12".

But let's say you're right and Piper was wrong - when did this exchange between Oswald and Piper take place?

[Charles Collins]

The 6th floor crew broke about 11:45-11:50pm. Not every worker did:

Mr. Ball: What time did you quit for lunch?
Mr. Jarman: It was right about 5 minutes to 12.

Mr. Belin: When did you quit for lunch that day?
Mr. West: Well, we always quit at 12 o'clock in the day.

Mr. Ball: What time do you usually go to lunch?
Mr. Dougherty: Well, usually about 12 o'clock or 12 noon.

The 6th floor crew were given permission by Shelley to break early. Piper didn't have such permission and broke at 12 which is when he saw Oswald. He remembers because they were specifically talking about breaking for lunch:

Mr. Ball: Was that the last time you saw him?
Mr. Piper: Just at 12 o'clock.
Mr. Ball: Where were you at 12 o'clock?
Mr. Piper: Down on the first floor.
Mr. Ball: What was he doing?
Mr. PIPER. Well, I said to him---"It's about lunch time.

"It's about lunch time", that is to say, "It's about 12".

But let's say you're right and Piper was wrong - when did this exchange between Oswald and Piper take place?

These guys didn't punch a time clock. There were no school type bells that rang to signal breaks and lunches. It was reportedly normal for the guys to break for lunch at about 11:50 to wash up. I would expect that Piper heard the guys on the elevators as they played their race to the first floor game. And that he therefore knew that it was about time to break and wash up for lunch.

Jarman said he saw LHO go up. Givens said he saw LHO on the sixth floor. Both said it was before noon.

You, on the other hand, cling to your ad hoc assumption that Piper waited until it was actually noon.      Go ahead and believe that if you want to. I really don't care.