The lapel flip -- what did i miss?

[Jack Nessan]

The fact that JFK was hit before Z223 was established years ago. Most lone-gunman theorists now insist the alleged magic-bullet hit occurred at Z223-224. But Kennedy's reaction at Z225 proves he must have been hit no later than Z221, and that's if you ignore his Z199-207 and Z224 reactions. Dr. Robert Piziali, an expert on injuries, admitted under cross examination at the 1992 ABA mock Oswald trial that if Kennedy was reacting to a wound in Z225, this would mean the bullet could have struck him no later than Z221. He explained there would have been a delay of 4 frames between the bullet's impact and Kennedy's reaction to it with his right hand. Obviously, this poses a fatal problem for the Z223-224 SBT. Dr. Piziali attempted to solve this problem by denying that Z225 shows Kennedy reacting to a wound with his right hand! In fact, Dr. Piziali denied Kennedy is reacting to a wound at all, in any way, in Z225! This is a good example of how SBT defenders will perform amazing flip-flops when confronted with troublesome facts.

Until the Z223-224 version of the SBT came along, there was wide agreement on both sides that JFK is reacting to a wound in Z225:

* Itek concluded Kennedy "is clearly reacting to a wound by frame 225."

* The photographic evidence panel of the House Select Committee on Assassinations concluded Kennedy is reacting to a wound in Z225; they also concluded that JFK was hit by Z190 and that his Z224-225 reaction was a continuation of the reaction that starts at Z200.

* Richard Trask, a respected researcher and longtime student of the Zapruder film, observes that Kennedy "emerges from the behind the sign at Z225 clearly having been shot."

* Dr. John Lattimer, an staunch WC apologist and a darling among lone-gunman theorists, concluded Kennedy shows a "reflex reaction" to a wound in Z225 and opined the wound occurred at about Z220. In fact, in his book Kennedy and Lincoln, Lattimer acknowledges that Kennedy's elbows are beginning to "fly upward in frame 224" (p. 241). This is a crucial admission, and Lattimer deserves credit for acknowledging the obvious fact that JFK is reacting to a wound in Z224, which means he was hit no later than Z220. This, in turn, proves that his dramatic Z226-232 reaction must have been caused by a different bullet than the one that hit him between Z190 and Z221.

* Ardent lone-gunman theorist Gerald Posner opines that at Z225 Kennedy "appears to be reacting to a bullet."

* In fact, we know from the 4/22/64 WC memorandum for the record that when a group of wound ballistics experts, the autopsy doctors, and Commission staffers reviewed the Zapruder film frame by frame, with the aid of enlargements, the consensus was that Kennedy "had been definitely hit by frames 224-225."

It should be noted that this group included Dr. F. W. Light, the deputy chief of the Biophysics Division at Edgewood Arsenal, and Dr. Alfred G. Olivier, the chief of the Wound Ballistics Branch of the Biophysics Division at Edgewood Arsenal. The group further noted that the Z224-225 reaction may have begun as early as Z199, and also at around Z204-205:

The fact that these experts recognized unusual movements by JFK starting at Z199 is significant. The HSCA PEP noticed the same unusual movements and concluded JFK was hit by Z190.

What do we see in Z225? JFK is clearly in distress. His face is contorted and his hands are in front of his chest, right hand above left. Both his forearms are bent inward and his hands are moving upward toward his throat or mouth. It is obvious from Kennedy's face and hands--especially his right hand--that he is reacting to a wound in Z225. This means the bullet could not have struck later than Z221. JFK could not have begun to visibly react in Z225 in a response to a bullet that hit him at Z223 or Z224. Humans simply cannot react that quickly with their limbs. Thus, if Connally was hit at Z223, he must have been hit by a different bullet than the one that hit JFK no later than Z221.

Can you explain why this group of self-proclaimed, distinguished experts is in direct conflict with a large group of eyewitnesses who tell a completely different story? You know the eyewitnesses.

Ultimately the whole post comes down to was JBC struck by the same bullet as JFK. The answer according to the other group of experts who stood along the street beside the car, rode in cars and motorcycles behind the car, and were occupants of the car is yes. They give a detailed account of the two shots and the reactions of the victims, JBC and JFK. Nobody in this group is guessing or estimating reaction times and all the other nonsense needed to be viewed as an expert opinion.

A partial list includes: DPD Chaney, DPD Hargis, SA Clint Hill, UPI Photographer Altgens, Zapruder, and 40+ other eyewitnesses who stated there were only two shots. The 20+ eyewitnesses who watch the car accelerate after the second shot before a third shot. The 20+ eyewitnesses who claim the second and third shot were so close it sounded like one.

 

The occupants of the car:

Jackie, Nellie both stated JBC cried out Oh No, No, No after the first shot and before the second.

JBC stated he cried out Oh No, No, No, after he was struck by the bullet.

SA Greer is a two shot witness

SA Kellerman stated the car accelerated after the second shot and before a third.

The Chism's state the first shot occurred before JFK reached their location. Z217-218.

Jean Newman stated the first shot occurred approximately 10 feet after the car had passed her location. Z200

These eyewitnesses should be given priority over experts estimating reaction times as if it was something etched in stone.

[Royell Storing]

  So you wanna Now embrace eyewitnesses?  How about going with the #1 Eyewitness? The Victim. The guy that actually got shot. Gov Connally said Separate/Different Shots struck JFK and Him. Case Closed!

[Jack Nessan]

  So you wanna Now embrace eyewitnesses?  How about going with the #1 Eyewitness? The Victim. The guy that actually got shot. Gov Connally said Separate/Different Shots struck JFK and Him. Case Closed!

 So you wanna Now embrace eyewitnesses?

Why choose this moment to be a clown? I thought you would explain the Knotts Lab conclusion instead this is your post.
What happened to the bullet that exited JFK? Where did the shot originate from that struck JBC?


You must have forgotten the thousand times this was posted. Remember he never heard the shot that struck him. JBC only heard two shots.

JBC Stated he cried out Oh No No No after he was struck. Jackie and Nellie stated that was after the first shot and before the second. You know SBT.

 Don't leave me hanging, what happened to the bullet that passed through JFK and from where did the bullet that struck JBC originate? Can you call them and ask or are they also trying to distance themselves from this debacle like you and Michael.

[Michael T. Griffith]

Can you explain why this group of self-proclaimed, distinguished experts is in direct conflict with a large group of eyewitnesses who tell a completely different story? You know the eyewitnesses.

Ultimately the whole post comes down to was JBC struck by the same bullet as JFK. The answer according to the other group of experts who stood along the street beside the car, rode in cars and motorcycles behind the car, and were occupants of the car is yes. They give a detailed account of the two shots and the reactions of the victims, JBC and JFK. Nobody in this group is guessing or estimating reaction times and all the other nonsense needed to be viewed as an expert opinion.

A partial list includes: DPD Chaney, DPD Hargis, SA Clint Hill, UPI Photographer Altgens, Zapruder, and 40+ other eyewitnesses who stated there were only two shots. The 20+ eyewitnesses who watch the car accelerate after the second shot before a third shot. The 20+ eyewitnesses who claim the second and third shot were so close it sounded like one.

The occupants of the car:

Jackie, Nellie both stated JBC cried out Oh No, No, No after the first shot and before the second.

JBC stated he cried out Oh No, No, No, after he was struck by the bullet.

SA Greer is a two shot witness

SA Kellerman stated the car accelerated after the second shot and before a third.

The Chism's state the first shot occurred before JFK reached their location. Z217-218.

Jean Newman stated the first shot occurred approximately 10 feet after the car had passed her location. Z200

These eyewitnesses should be given priority over experts estimating reaction times as if it was something etched in stone.

Huh??? You are way off. Nellie Connally said there were three shots. She said she and her husband heard the first, that her husband was hit by the second shot, and that the head shot came next. Kellerman said there were at least three shots. In any shooting with multiple shots, some witnesses won't notice one or two of the shots/will only hear one or two of the shots. This is common, especially when two of the shots are very close together, and many witnesses commented that two of the shots came virtually at the time.

You also have all the witnesses who reported seeing a bullet strike the pavement early in the shooting. Even Posner finds these witnesses convincing. So did the HSCA.

Anyway, you are missing the point that JFK's obvious shot reaction in Z225 refutes the Z223-224 SBT.

[Jack Nessan]

Huh??? You are way off. Nellie Connally said there were three shots. She said she and her husband heard the first, that her husband was hit by the second shot, and that the head shot came next. Kellerman said there were at least three shots. In any shooting with multiple shots, some witnesses won't notice one or two of the shots/will only hear one or two of the shots. This is common, especially when two of the shots are very close together, and many witnesses commented that two of the shots came virtually at the time.

You also have all the witnesses who reported seeing a bullet strike the pavement early in the shooting. Even Posner finds these witnesses convincing. So did the HSCA.

Anyway, you are missing the point that JFK's obvious shot reaction in Z225 refutes the Z223-224 SBT.

No.

It is crystal clear what Nellie saw and heard. The exact same as Jackie.

Mrs. CONNALLY. -----------------------------------As the first shot was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh, no, no,

Good for Posner and the HSCA.

The first shot took place where the eyewitnesses stated it took place. Z210-214

Are you making any headway on explaining Knotts Lab missing shooter and bullet?

[Royell Storing]

  What's next? You want me to explain how the atom was split?

[Zeon Mason]

That’s what they forgot when they did that last 2003 experiment with the 2 relics human torso models.  CLOTHES!  Perhaps including the shirts and jackets would have offered some more credence to the lapel flap flip and or if the tie not was be bypassed or not ( and replicate the holes in shirts and jackets) or not.

Perhaps adding the back brace that JFK wore might be appropriate.

Perhaps instead of a solid block of material that’s supposed to represent wrist bone, use a cadaver wrist bone?

Adding adjustable flexible arms to both dummy’s might have an effect.

The dummy models  should be on springs that allow some rotation of the torso and forward pivot with a degree of  resistance approximating the human muscle tension, so as to prove to a reasonable probability that JCs right shoulder rotating and his torso pivoting forward was caused by angular momentum of a bullet hiring JC to the high right side of his center of gravity relative to his torso, upper body mass, and orientation of his shoulders, arms and his head angle.

I’d would like to see the hat in the hand  of the JC dummy right hand and what was the most likely orientation of the hat being held upside down so that the wrist lines up with the SBT trajectory of JFK back wound, throat wound, and JCs back wound and front chest exit wound.