Why are the CT's so obsessed with disproving the innocent Bus and Cab rides?

[John Mytton]

Yeah, thanks for unnessessarily reiterating the legal principles of innocent until proven guilty but how about you stop sidestepping the actual issue and answer the question that was posed waaaaaaay back at start of this thread?

Innocent of the shooting or not, Oswald still got from the TSBD to his boarding house somehow. Whatever method or route he took makes no difference to what he may or may not have done on the sixth floor a few minutes earlier.
Why is it such a big deal to disprove Oswald got in Whaley's cab? What difference does it make? If he got a different cab, a helicopter or even ran the whole way, what would it prove?

Thanks Vincent, you hit the nail on the head, besides establishing any accomplices and a possible getaway car, the method of transport is completely irrelevant but these CT "legal eagles" seem hell bent on creating a defence from absolutely nothing that goes nowhere, and relentlessly attack Bledsoe, attack Whaley, attack Fritz, claim the bus transfer was planted etc etc, and still after more than half a century the most paranoid minds the CT World has to offer and their combined intellect are still regurgitating refuted nonsense from decades ago. Go figure.

JohnM

[John Mytton]

Great comeback, Weidmann.
That certainly showed me.
What are you 12 years old?
I shall definitely take what you said on board and think twice about it next time now that I know that this is the type of devastating abuse I might be on the receiving end of. 

 

I stopped interacting with Weidmann and now you know why.

JohnM

[Walt Cakebread]

The way I see it Earlene Roberts' statement that Oswald arrived at his rooming house at 1pm and left soon after would surely have been enough to prove that Lee's claim of getting a direct bus to the Theatre from Elm and Lamar was complete bullshit.
Why go to all the bother of creating a fake taxi ride? And if you are going to go to all the bother, why not at least write down the correct times of the alleged fake taxi fare in the taxi driver's journal?
Or even better, bearing in mind there were no recordings and barely any witnesses to Oswald's statement, why not just completely ignore it and not report it all and then there wouldn't be any need to eliminate Oswald's statement in the first place.

I know these questions have been asked several times before on this thread, but as usual, nobody has answered them and have preferred to go off on a tangent about something else like the ins and outs of 'innocent until proven guilty' because they think it scores them petty points in an argument without addressing the actual question.

I believe the reason that Fritz and the conspirators were desperate to show that Lee had taken a taxi from the Grey hound taxi stand to his room, was to cast aside his statement that he had rode a bus to the Texas theater.  It should be very obvious to even a low IQ person that if Lee had taken a bus to the theater then he could not have been at 10th  & Patton at the time that JD Tippit was murdered.   And that's the reason that Fritz had to introduce Whaley's BS tale into the picture.   

If it was revealed that Lee Oswald had rode in Whaley's taxi from the Greyhound taxi stand to a place near the rooming house, then Fritz could show that Lee had lied about taking a bus to the theater.   ( At least it could be shown that Lee did not ride the same bus from Elm & Lamar all the way to the Texas theater, as he first implied)   

Personally, I believe that Lee originally said that he rode a bus to the theater and the interrogators construed  that to mean that Lee was telling them that he rode in only one bus THE SAME BUS  all the way from the TSBD to the theater.   Lee probably saw no reason to clarify their misconception, and tell them that he actually had got off the first bus, and hired a taxi to take him to the rooming house and then caught the second bus from the rooming house to the theater.  After all he knew that he had taken a bus from the rooming house to the theater, and he had no idea the importance of this act.   He didn't know that officer Tippit had been murdered at 10th  & Patton and it was crucial for Fritz to place him at 10th and Patton during the period that he was on the bus going to the theater.

[Walt Cakebread]

The way I see it Earlene Roberts' statement that Oswald arrived at his rooming house at 1pm and left soon after would surely have been enough to prove that Lee's claim of getting a direct bus to the Theatre from Elm and Lamar was complete bullshit.
Why go to all the bother of creating a fake taxi ride? And if you are going to go to all the bother, why not at least write down the correct times of the alleged fake taxi fare in the taxi driver's journal?
Or even better, bearing in mind there were no recordings and barely any witnesses to Oswald's statement, why not just completely ignore it and not report it all and then there wouldn't be any need to eliminate Oswald's statement in the first place.

I know these questions have been asked several times before on this thread, but as usual, nobody has answered them and have preferred to go off on a tangent about something else like the ins and outs of 'innocent until proven guilty' because they think it scores them petty points in an argument without addressing the actual question.

Why go to all the bother of creating a fake taxi ride? And if you are going to go to all the bother, why not at least write down the correct times of the alleged fake taxi fare in the taxi driver's journal?
Or even better, bearing in mind there were no recordings and barely any witnesses to Oswald's statement, why not just completely ignore it and not report it all and then there wouldn't be any need to eliminate Oswald's statement in the first place.

These are good legitimate questions and ..... they are not easy to answer because of the sketchy and misleading records available.

Fritz and the conspirators were bent on hiding the fact that Lee took a bus to the theater. Therefore they wanted something that proved that Lee Had "lied" about how he had traveled from the TSBD to the theater.   Originally in an over simplification he had said that he had traveled from the TSBD to the theater by bus. ( This wasn't an intentional malicious lie it was simply a simplification that Lee didn't realize contained a crucial piece of evidence that Fritz and the conspirators need desperately.
They need to eliminate the bus ride from the Rooming house to the theater, because it was evidence that Lee had not shot JD Tippit.

From Thomas Kelley's report on page 626 of WR--- Quote---"In response to questions put by Captain Fritz , Oswald said that immediately after having left the building where he worked, HE WENT BY BUS TO THE THEATER where he was arrested" unquote     

That's what Thomas Kelley reported, that Lee Oswald told Captain Fritz.....

On page 604 of WR Captain Fritz recorded that he asked Lee during a session on 11-23-63 at 10:25 am,   that --- 
 Quote  " During this interview I talked to Oswald about his leaving the building, and he told me he left by bus and rode to a stop near home and walked to his house.  At the time of Oswald's arrest he had a bus transfer in his pocket. He admitted this was given to him by the bus driver when he rode the bus after leaving the building"  unquote   

Notice the difference between Kelley's record which was written on 11-23-63 and Fritz's report that was written several weeks later.

"In response to questions put by Captain Fritz , Oswald said that immediately after having left the building where he worked, HE WENT BY BUS TO THE THEATER where he was arrested" unquote     
Further down in the same paragraph Kelley recorded that;    quote--- "Fritz asked him if he had ridden in a taxi that day and Oswald then changed his story and said that when he got on the bus he found that it was going too slow and after two blocks he got off the bus and took a cab to his home; that he passed the time with the cab driver and that the cab driver had told him that the president was shot. He paid a cab fare of 85 cents " unquote


In Fritz's report, Fritz said that quote---"one of his officers had told him that a cab driver, William Wayne Whaley , THOUGHT that he had recognized Oswald's picture  as the man who had gotten in his cab near the bus station and rode to Beckley Avenue. I asked Oswald if he had ridden in a cab on that day and he said "yes, I did ride in the cab." unquote

Contrast Fritz's report with Kelley's report.... quote--- "Fritz asked him if he had ridden in a taxi that day and Oswald then changed his story and said that when he got on the bus he found that it was going too slow and after two blocks he got off the bus and took a cab to his home; that he passed the time with the cab driver and that the cab driver had told him that the president was shot. He paid a cab fare of 85 cents.   In response to questions, he stated that this was the first time he had ever ridden in a cab since a bus was always available .   He said that he went home, changed his TROUSERS AND SHIRT and put his shirt in a drawer. This was a red shirt, and he put it with his dirty clothes. He described the shirt as having a BUTTON DOWN COLLAR, and of a reddish color. The trousers were grey colored."  unquote       

[Dan O'meara]

Why would Oswald admit to being in possession of a transfer when that supported his story?

That's a Fritz fabrication.

Oswald would have flashed that transfer.

Really?
And when did Fritz have this fabricated?
And what did the bus company have to say about fake transfers being created?
And why did McWatters confirm it was his transfer?

Let me guess - Fritz sent out all his officers to track down the man who got the real transfer, they found him, killed him, took the transfer, brought it back to Fritz and he pretended it was Oswald's.

Is it something like that you've got in mind?

[Walt Cakebread]

When did the transfer make it to the evidence room?

I believe that Lee did obtain a transfer from Mc Watter's when he left the bus.....

However, he forgot that transfer in the reddish shirt with the BUTTON DOWN COLLAR when he took it off and put in the dresser drawer.  That's where it was found when the DPD detectives searched Lee's room that afternoon.

[Walt Cakebread]

Ok ok ok, we get it you don't believe Whaley took Oswald from "A" to "B" and you think Oswald took another cab from "A" to "B", now what?

JohnM

This is an interesting question??   

Did Fritz send his officers out to find the  cab driver who had been bragging to his fellow cabbies about how he had transported the assassin in his cab after the assassination.  Fritz was looking for the cabbie would tell them that he had transported Lee Oswald to Oak Cliff the afternoon of 11-22-63??  Fritz reported that ( page 604 WR) One of the officers had told me that a cab driver William Wayne Whaley, THOUGHT he had recognized Oswald's picture as the man who had gotten in his cab near the bus station and rode to Beckley Ave.  I asked Oswald if he had ridden in a cab that day, and he said "yes, did ride in the cab. The bus I got on where I work got into heavy traffic and was traveling too slow, and I got off and caught a cab."  I asked him about his conversation with the cab driver, and he said he remembered that when he got into the cab a lady came up who also wanted a cab , and he told Oswald to tell the lady to "take another cab"   xxxxx irrelevant information omitted. xxxxx  During this conversation he told me he reached home by cab and CHANGED BOTH HIS SHIRT AND TROUSERS before going to the show.HE SAID THAT HIS CAB FARE WAS 85 CENTS   ( notice that Fritz did not say "approximately 85 cents in this report)


There can be no doubt that Whaley's story is just plain old BS....  Whaley apparently had in fact transported a young man to Oakcliff that afternoon, but it could not have been Lee Oswald.  He said that he picked up the man at 12:30 , and it is a known fact that Lee Oswald was still at the TSBD at 12:30.  But how did he know that Lee had in fact taken a cab from the Greyhound depot to Zangs and Beckley?  Simple....He talked to the cabbie who did in fact transport Lee Oswald from the Greyhound taxi stand to Oak Cliff...  He simply inserted himself into the story.