The Bus Stop Farce

[Martin Weidmann]

This is the timeline reconstructed on the basis of the available evidence;

1:03 - 1.04 Markham leaves home at 9th street
1:06           Markham arrives at the corner of 10th street, after having walked one block. She has one more block to go, to
                  Jefferson, where she would arrive at around 1.09 or 1.10, well in time for the 1.12 bus.
1:07 - 1.09 Tippit is shot and killed.
1.10           Bowley arrives at the crime scene after having picked up his daughter from school at 12.55 and driving 7 miles
                 Upon arrive he looks at his watch which says 1.10
1.10 - 1.11 Callaway hears the shots and encounters a man with a revolver running towards him.
1.11           After the encounter, Callaway runs half a block and arrives at 10th street. He sees Bowley operating the police radio
1.12 - 1.13 The ambulance, dispatched from a nearby funeral home on Jefferson, arrives and Bowley and Callaway help
                 putting Tippit in the ambulance.
1.15 - 1.16 After a short 2 miles drive, the ambulance arrives at Methodist Hospital followed by Detective Davenport who saw
                 the ambulance and chased it to the hospital
1.16 - 1.17 Tippit is declared DOA

It fits perfectly, but only if the shooting happened between 1.06 and 1.10.

[Charles Collins]

We've been through this already. I agree with you, in general, that people do not keep acurate account of the time, but there are exceptions. If, like in Markham's case, you need to catch a bus at a certain time, you need to be punctual in your timing, or you will miss the bus. If, like in Bowley's case, you need to pick up your daughter from school and then your wife from work, you also need to be aware of the exact time to avoid having them wait for you.

The thing with these two witnesses is that by themselves they would not provide sufficient information to confidently arrive at a likely time of the shooting, but combined it is another matter all together. Even more so when placed in a wider context of interactions with others at the scene of the crime. So, let's look at what we know and see it you can follow along.

The most obvious indicator that Tippit was not killed at 1.14 or 1.15 is that the authorization for autopsy shows that Tippit was declared DOA at the Methodist hospital at 1:15 pm. DPD officer Davenport, who followed the ambulance part of the way and was present at the hospital confirms that time in his report.

And then there is the combined timeline of Helen Markham and T.F. Bowley that does not compute with Tippit being killed after 1:10 pm at the latest. No LNr has even tried to come up with a plausible scenario for Markham still being at 10th/Patton at 1:14 or 1:15 when she testified she left home "a little after 1" and the one block walk from her home on 9th street to the corner of 10th street and Patton would have taken her only 2, perhaps 3 minutes. Markham estimated in her testimony that she took the 1.15 bus to work every day, but according to the FBI the bus was scheduled to stop there at 1.12 and at 1.22. It actually doesn't matter which bus Markham was talking about, because a walk of two blocks to the bus stop would have taken her no more than 6 minutes. So, if she left home "a little after 1" she would have easily been at the bus stop at around 1.15 and thus not at 10th/Patton. In other words, Tippit must have been shot earlier than 1.15, most likely around 1.06, because otherwise Markham could not have witnessed it.

The same thing goes for Bowley. He arrived shortly after Tippit was killed. In his affidavit he said he picked up his daughter at R.L. Thornton School in Singing Hills at "about 12:55". School bells, in my experience, have a tendency to ring at the correct time every day! Now, let's also not forget that, after picking up his daughter, Bowley was also going to pick up his wife from work, to go on a family holiday and thus had every reason to be on time and be aware of the time! The drive from the school to 10th/Patton is about 7 miles long and takes roughly 13 minutes, depending on the route, making it absolutely possible and plausible for him to arrive at 10th street at 1.10 pm, like he said he did in his affidavit. But even if we accept that Bowley didn't pick up his daughter on time (leaving her waiting for 5 minutes or longer) and did not leave the school until 1 PM, he still would have arrived at 10th/Patton at 1:13, which of course would have been prior to the shooting of Tippit at 1:14 or 1:15, as the WC narrative claims.

The interaction of Bowley with Callaway further confirms Bowley's arrival at the crime scene shortly after Tippit was killed. He testified that he was about half a block away from 10th Street when he saw a man coming down the street with a revolved. After that encounter Callaway ran half a block to 10th Street and when he got there Bowley was already there, using the DPD radio. Both Bowley and Callaway assisted in putting Tippit into the ambulance which arrived only shortly after Callaway got there. The ambulance brought Tippit to Methodist hospital which was about two miles away (if memory serves) and Tippit was declared D.O.A. at 1.15.

This timeline fits perfectly together if the shooting of Tippit happened between 1.06 (the time Markham would have gotten to 10th street after walking one block) and 1.10 (the time Bowley arrived after having picked up his daughter from school). If you move the time of the murder back to 1.14 or 1.15, as per WC narrative) none of the timeline fits.

Eliminate the impossible and what you end up with, however unlikely, is the truth.

Markham more than likely missed the 1:12 bus plenty of times and caught the 1:22 bus without even knowing the difference. Why would I suggest that? Because she estimated the bus was scheduled to be there at 1:15. And that is evidence enough to convince me that Markham didn’t pay as close attention to the time as you suggest.

Your “impossibilities” are not so.....

[Gerry Down]

If you follow Scoggins' timeline, he goes to the gentlemans club at 1pm and watches news of the assassination on TV with the boys for a while. He then walks to his cab at the infamous junction. His timeline pushes the Tippit shooting to well after 1:10pm.

[Martin Weidmann]

Markham more than likely missed the 1:12 bus plenty of times and caught the 1:22 bus without even knowing the difference. Why would I suggest that? Because she estimated the bus was scheduled to be there at 1:15. And that is evidence enough to convince me that Markham didn’t pay as close attention to the time as you suggest.

Your “impossibilities” are not so.....

Markham more than likely missed the 1:12 bus plenty of times and caught the 1:22 bus without even knowing the difference.

Pure speculation and of no relevance to the timeline I have presented. Markham estimated that she took her regular bus at 1.15. That could be the delayed 1.12 or the 1.22. Either way - and that's the main point - she would have been at the bus stop on Jefferson at 1.15 and thus not at 10th street.

Why would I suggest that? Because she estimated the bus was scheduled to be there at 1:15. And that is evidence enough to convince me that Markham didn’t pay as close attention to the time as you suggest.

I guess you missed it, but I have already stated that Markham's estimate by itself wouldn't be enough. It needs to be looked at in combination with other known facts.

Bowley arrived at 1.10. He looked at his watch! Bowley confirms and corroborates Markham's timeline in as much as that the shooting had already taken place prior to his arrival. So, for the timeline to be wrong, not only Markham needs to be wrong, but also Bowley. But then, Callaway said he heard the shots, saw a man running towards him, then ran half a block to the crime scene and when he got there Bowley was already there and working the police radio. So, Callaway confirms and corrobarates Bowley's account. Both Bowley and Calllaway helped to put Tippit in the ambulance, which arrived at Methodist Hospital at 1.15, which in turn is confirmed and corroborated by Detective Davenport, who followed the ambulance to the hospital.

With all this in mind, your dismissal of Markham isn't very convincing. Come back to me when you have a plausible alternative for the entire timeline and not just a part of it.

[Martin Weidmann]

If you follow Scoggins' timeline, he goes to the gentlemans club at 1pm and watches news of the assassination on TV with the boys for a while. He then walks to his cab at the infamous junction. His timeline pushes the Tippit shooting to well after 1:10pm.

The problem with Scoggins' timeline is that his estimated time of arrival at the club is off by some 10 minutes. Check out his testimony and you will find that he picked up a client at the airport at 12.30 and dropped him of in Oak Cliff, two streets away from the club at (if memory serves) 12.45. Do you really believe it would have taken him 15 minutes to drive two streets to the club?

And how long is "a while"? There is nothing in Scoggins' timeline that is solid enough to make any kind of determination.

[Charles Collins]

Markham more than likely missed the 1:12 bus plenty of times and caught the 1:22 bus without even knowing the difference.

Put speculation and of no relevance to the timeline I have presented. Markham estimated that she took her regular bus at 1.15. That could be the delayed 1.12 or the 1.22. Either way - and that's the main point - she would have been at the bus stop on Jefferson at 1.15 and thus not at 10th street.

Why would I suggest that? Because she estimated the bus was scheduled to be there at 1:15. And that is evidence enough to convince me that Markham didn’t pay as close attention to the time as you suggest.

I guess you missed it, but I have already stated that Markham's estimate by itself wouldn't be enough. It needs to be looked at in combination with other known facts.

Bowley arrived at 1.10. He looked at his watch! Bowley confirms and corroborates Markham's timeline in as much as that the shooting had already taken place prior to his arrival. So, for the timeline to be wrong, not only Markham needs to be wrong, but also Bowley. But then, Callaway said he heard the shots, saw a man running towards him, then ran half a block to the crime scene and when he got there Bowley was already there and working the police radio. So, Callaway confirms and corrobarates Bowley's account. Both Bowley and Calllaway helped to put Tippit in the ambulance, which arrived at Methodist Hospital at 1.15, which in turn is confirmed and corroborated by Detective Davenport, who followed the ambulance to the hospital.

With all this in mind, your dismissal of Markham isn't very convincing. Come back to me when you have a plausible alternative for the entire timeline and not just a part of it.

Your “timeline” is full of speculation. Time was treated more casually back then. Your “reasons” for Bowley to be so concerned about being on time are a prime example of your speculative wishful thinking. His daughter and wife were most likely accustomed to having to wait a few minutes for people who were running a little behind schedule. As was I and most people I know. It was commonplace and nothing to get anymore than a little annoyed about. I doubt that Markham was always at work on time. Like I said in the original post, the naysayers will still cling to their beliefs. Sigh...

[Martin Weidmann]

Your “timeline” is full of speculation. Time was treated more casually back then. Your “reasons” for Bowley to be so concerned about being on time are a prime example of your speculative wishful thinking. His daughter and wife were most likely accustomed to having to wait a few minutes for people who were running a little behind schedule. As was I and most people I know. It was commonplace and nothing to get anymore than a little annoyed about. I doubt that Markham was always at work on time. Like I said in the original post, the naysayers will still cling to their beliefs. Sigh...

Your “timeline” is full of speculation.

And what speculation would that be exactly?

Your “reasons” for Bowley to be so concerned about being on time are a prime example of your speculative wishful thinking. His daughter and wife were most likely accustomed to having to wait a few minutes for people who were running a little behind schedule.

Now who is speculating for a selfserving purpose? You kinda forgot that Bowley looked at his watch when he arrived at the crime scene and it said 1.10.....

And that's not all. The events that followed; Callaway's arrival, the ambulance ride and the arrival at Methodist where Tippit was declared DOA at 1.15, as corroborated by Detective Davenport doesn't leave much room for Bowley's watch to be wrong.

I doubt that Markham was always at work on time.

More speculation... and not a shred of evidence (as per usual)

Like I said in the original post, the naysayers will still cling to their beliefs. Sigh...

At least it is a belief backed up by circumstantial evidence. The LNs just believe with no evidence at all, which is exactly why you are still trying to discredit the timeline by questioning individual parts of it rather than providing a plausible alternative that would fit all the known facts.... Some things never change.